So it’s been a while since I made fun of the PUA community – I’ve been really on really good behavior lately. Some of you reading the blog really hate when I make fun of the PUA community, because you defend it by saying that it’s really good for certain things.
And do you know what? I do believe that it is good for certain things. I believe that you can learn a foundation from some of the pick-up artists; I believe that some of the pick-up routines are actually great crutches – great ways for you to start learning how to communicate with women.
Hell, if you need a script to talk to a woman – that’s the only way you can start doing it – that’s great. But then all of a sudden you realize that you don’t really need the script anymore and you have become more confident, and you’re done. There’s a starting point for everybody.
But I still can’t stand the nicknames!
There is this one company out there who has a coach that they call “Natural.” His name is Natural something – I’m not going to mention his name because I don’t want to give them any press. I don’t want to give them any traffic from the site or anything. Instead of just calling him by his real name, his nickname is “Natural ______.” I’m not making this stuff up. He’s got videos on YouTube where he says, “hey everybody, this is Natural ______!”
If you’re so natural, then why are you calling yourself “Natural _____?” Why do you need to have a silly, stupid nickname?
Do you go up to women and say, “hello, my name is Natural _____, what’s your name?” “My name is Post-Menopause Jane!” “Really, well good to meet you, Post-Menopause Jane!” Why don’t we all walk around with names like this?
Tony back there should call himself “Copywriter Tony” or “Sales Copy Tony.” Rey can call himself “Surfer Rey” because he likes to surf. Khiem can say, “you know, I may be from Vietnam, but I’m really French, so you can call me French Vietnamese Khiem.”
Daphne doesn’t ever bark, so she could be “Barkless Daphne.” I could be… well I just would like to call myself my own name! How about “Grandpa Wygant” as they all call me, because I’m older than them.
Or the other day, I was on American Airlines and I met the pilot, whose name was Tom. But I could have called him “Pilot Tom.” “Hey Pilot Tom, how are you doing today?” Or the girl that served me coffee at Starbucks the other day, I should have called her “Starbucks Amy” – well I probably would have done that, because it’s a nickname and she was cute.
But I still don’t understand why these pick-up guys call themselves natural but they still have made-up names. Why do they have to make up their names? Why can’t they stand behind who they are as men – why do they have to make up such silly nicknames all of the time?
Now I’ve been told by some of them that the reason why they make up nicknames is that when they meet a woman, they don’t want her to know what they do for a living. You know what? I’m proud of what I do. When I meet a woman, I tell her exactly what I do: “I teach men how to be men and I teach women how to attract the man that they want.”
I’m proud of that. I’m proud of the work that I do, I’m proud of my clients, and I’m proud of my life. But why are these people hiding? They don’t want women to know that they are actually being manipulated through sleazy pick-up techniques? They don’t want women to know that they are “The Phantom?” Or “Natural Joe,” or whatever the stupid nickname might be?
Once again, this is an open letter to the PUA community: grow up! Start calling yourselves by who you are, and brand yourself. I am so sick of all of the nicknames. It’s just so silly. You’re just a bunch of boys running around.
Why don’t you come to one of my bootcamps and learn how to become a real man?!?
Todays free podcast is all about how to be that man. No pick up lines knicknames or any other crutch.
In this interview I go over how to follow up after you meet a woman.
Enjoy and have a great Thursday.
heres Surfer Rey, but i’m no longer surfer rey. because now they call me Paco in the office : (. maybe in a few years i can teach the Taco Method.
ya nicknames are ridiculous, routines are ridiculous, the entire premise of manipulating a woman or a person to like you/repsect you/sleep with you is just absurd. Because you should focus on the fun/curiosity/intellecutal interests/banter. Meeting them is always secondary to these things in my opinion! Yet I make this mistake all the time.
Some of the PUA stuff has benefited me tremendously, but yeah, I never really got the nicknames either.
I know the guy you’re talking about, and found an hilarious video by him. You’ve probably seen it, but if you haven’t I’ll email it rather than posting it here.
“YUCK!!! or WOO!!!” to a videogame soundtrack”.
Nick names can be a form of endearment among friends. But a made up nick name? Who or what are they hiding from? Criminals use nick names!
“the entire premise of manipulating a woman or a person to like you/repsect you/sleep with you is just absurd”
Interesting choice of words. David, what do you think about this statement?
Michael
michael
that is a great statement and rings true.
i really do not respect anyone who manipulates anyone into something.
but dont forget someone who can be manipulated is another issue.
it takes two to do anything and the manipulator has to find someone to be manipulated.
ya this is what learning this is all about, you can attract people without manipulating anyone. you simply attract by just being you! and also at the same time you learn through experience and become a stronger person, so you can see through the manipulation other people throw at you.
Jim
That gives me a great idea.
Americas Most Wanted.
The inside look at pick up artists.
It can be a team of cops busting guys for manipulating and using lines and routines on women.
I think I will call my agent and get that show pitched
Ya, that’s why PUA’s always find BIMBOS!!! It takes two to tango, and a special type of woman who falls for the PUA game.
The more I explore David’s stuff, the more i feel that women come secondary to your purpose and mission in life as a man. They are important, but you can’t chase them. You have to share your passions/fun/excitement with them. Like I saw in yesterday’s blog, the premise of a date can’t be “OMG we’re on a date!!!”, it should be more like “Wow!! we love to share the same ways to have fun/passions/adventures”
Yet we all fall into the trap, some more than others.
I don’t know… I could go for having a nickname maybe… but it would have to be totally badass!
I’m considering “cuntslayer”
What do you guys think?
taras
i am surprised none of the PUAS have coined that term yet.
it fits some of them to a T!!
Although I must admit that I have never been hit on by a nickname using, costume wearing, card-trick weilding, neg throwing guy … I have certainly been given many a “routine” in my day.
I honestly do wonder about what kind of woman would find this whole PUA song and dance to be appealing … ESPECIALLY someone who uses those ridiculous nicknames … It reminds me of the guys in the 80s who played Dungeons & Dragons (except those guys at least left their “personas” in the game!)
I think teaching men to manipulate women with routines and tricks is doing them a major disservice – because while I think they will see success in the initial contact with women – I think they’ll be at a total loss as to what to do after that … and never REALLY develop confidence in who THEY are …
Rich
I agree
IT takes tow to tango and as i always have said……there is a style that fits everyone and some guys really want to be a pua.
I think when a guy is younger in his early 20s being a PUA is fun…but guys above 25 really need to re think this.
You just do not want to walk around talking PUA language and calling each other ccrazy names
Kristen-
Ya, you can’t truely control the reaction of another person, but we’ve all been conditioned since we were young to believe so. So that’s why PUA’s exist and they actually have customers for their products.
The true solution is this “I don’t care” attitude that David talks about, and is a cliche in society at large.
You have to be detached from others reactions, because you can only control yourself, and you should only be foucsed on what you are doing. You can’t control others!!
Kristen
I agree and i think if men spent time really researching what women want and desire they would realize that none of them want to be picked up.
Create attraction through the power of who you are!!
David – I can see that show idea going one step further …
How about you do a PUA Intervention – capture them in costume and in the act, throw them in the back of a van, and then lock them in a house until they can be defrocked, de-nicknamed, and de-programmed about how to connect with women …
Ok – I’ll admit I read “The Game” and thought that this PUA stuff seemed kinda cool …
But I’m 39 years old … I would look SUPER ridiculous trying to meet women wearing black nailpolish, goggles and introducing myself as “Slyguy” or something …
C’mon …. Don’t you have to question a method of meeting women that only works on drunk or not-so-bright women who are under the age of 25?!
Hey All
When i was in high school and college i was all about being manipulated. I was young and dumb!
I am now in my late 20s and whenever one of these pickup guys come over and try to talk to me i will right away break them out of their routine and see if they can be real.
I suggest to all women to use this method.
It is beyond funny the PUA just stands there with his head hanging and has no idea what to do next because it takes him out of scriptland!
Those are my thoughts.
And David when are you going to come and hang with me already!!
You know I love messing with you any chance i can get.
Rich,
That’s a great point … but I think it’s not just becoming detached from the outcome of any interaction you have that’s so critical – it’s also not having to “plan” for each interaction like the PUA method seems to support.
What’s so great about learning what David teaches, is that you are able to use those skills to become a better conversationalist with ANYONE – then you are ready and able to have a great conversation w/ someone you’re interested in and not be nervous about it!
It is all about becoming a great conversationalist. If you develop those skills you will never be at a loss for words and you can meet anyone.
Guys, there is no two ways around it — women (notice I said women not “girls”) are attracted to confident men who are comfortable with themselves … period. Not men who are pretending to be confident by confidently delivering a routine or by using insults to make themselves seem more “valuable,” but authentically confident men.
The second part to the attraction equasion is a guy who will just have a normal, relevant conversation with us and listen to us … That’s it!
We’re not that complicated.
As for these PUA methods, I do not know any woman who would be thinking “WOW! I was so hot for this guy who was wearing a Halloween costume, uses a stupid nickname and insulted me.” Ok … maybe I liked those kind of guys when I was in college – but grownup women would never be interested in this …
i totally agree with kristen and rich. because i think the reason why pua community is so appealing is because, it is because they are all selling on a magic pill mentality. they make people believe that you don’t have to do work on yourself and keep being the weak little man and still pull girls left and right, by just adapting a nick name and some conversation routines.
Lisa
You know I will be in Boston soon….and i am a man of my word.
You and I will finally hang out!
Can we stop bashing the PUA guys here?! It seems to me that you all are forgetting one critical fact — what they teach WORKS!
Otherwise, there would not be so many guys who follow this stuff – and they wouldn’t have put one on a TV show last year either
And to all the women who claim they wouldj’t respond to these guys I am dubious because they seem to be getting quite a lot of action – maybe you just don’t wanna admit it??
Jules
Can you be any more blunt:)
Ya, it teaches you and reveals how to put your focus in the right place. Some people have it naturally, some people can do it sometimes. Some people have trouble doing it at all.
These things are natural to begin with, David just points people in the right direction and enhances their ability to understand.
By the way, the podcast today is great. Following up with a woman can be akward and hard to an inexperiencecd person like myself.
David, David, David …
Blunt is all that seems to get through to these fellas!
…and they certainly don’t seem to feel any incentive to “softpedal” what they want from women …
HERE’S blunt for you David …
Jeff, you are a moron!
Jeff-
Of course it works, but it only works with lower self-esteem women and bimbos!! Of course not 100% of the time, but they are lower quality on average!!
And don’t watch T.V. too much, read books!! Cause that show is fake, the guy who won is an actor!!!
Jeff
It works on certain types of women and for certain guys.
Real confidence will work all the time.
And if you follow what I teach you know I think there is good and bad in everything.
I just do not respect boyish nicknames. That i find really silly and immature.
As for the TV show.
Mystery is a great pick up artist and very charismatic.
The show was reality tv and the guy who won was an actor. That has been all over the internet for the last year.
None of the stupid reality shows are as real as you think. I live in LA and have many friends in the industry and its all pretty much staged.
As for bashing the women, think outside the box here and learn from them. They are offering there opinions and you can really learn from them.
There are a million ways to look at things and each system that someone teaches will fit that person who is looking for it.
Its really is that simple.
You like being a PUA and that fits who you are so enjoy it. I like the way I am and when i coach I want to work with men who want to become what I teach.
The world is all about choice.
And this blog is doing exactly what i wanted….to create a great thread and debate a topic and have some fun on a thursday so i did my job!
Jules
I do not think we need to call Jeff a moron. He is allowed to have his opinions and if what he is doing is working for him…..then that is great.
His techniques will not work on you but i am sure there are plenty of women that they will work on.
Life is all about choices and being an individual
Jeff man, can you stop! you first put Owen Wilson on yesterday’s blog. now you actually believe all the PUA stuff works, the fact is they don’t. the TV show was a fluke, they were all hired actors in the show.
and like i said its so appealing because its all magic pill mentality. and theres a HUGE different between wowing a girl with routine and make her get all excited for 5 minutes than really attracting her with confidence.
Ya,
Meeting people through your passions and interests is much more exciting than walking up to her with the intention of meeting her alone and not to share anything (which means you are using a routine).
Meeting her really should be secondary to what your are talking about or sharing together. In my experience, that’s what has the most power. For example, if we’re both talking about my love of history, travel, sports, etc. it becomes so natural of a conversation.
And when I have the confidence to keep the conversation or romantic-comedy story rolling, that’s when it will work.
He certainly does have a right to be whatever kind of individual he wants, David …
My “moron” comment stemmed more from his “you know you girls really want it …” type of comment.
Plus, if he can’t come up w/ better credibility for this stuff than a reality show, I think that’s all the evidence we need …
David, i really laughed out loud when I read your article, I know exactly who you are referring to, but you got to remember aside from the fear that women would know who you are, a lot of us have regular full time jobs, we wouldn’t want random office guys/girls googling us and reading our FRs/LRs. I can see why he’s called natural XYZ, because most of the instructors out there are routine based, so they finally have one on boaad who doing freestyle and hence the name I guess, but IMO even the smoothest naturals use some sort of a tested routine or set of steps from approaching and sleeping with women, the only difference is they do it on a more subconcious/instinctive level.
You know, these routine things I can tell you would NEVER work on me, but I really don’t begrudge anyone their own individual choices.
I can tell you that for my personal opinion, that I get the most turned on by men who will start a conversation with me about nothing having to do w/ “meeting,” (like talking about the coffee I just ordered or something) … BUT then will let that naturally escalate into talking about other stuff.
When a guy in that situation looks directly in my eyes, and listens, and seems interested in what I’m saying … THAT IS HOT!
Just the other day, I was in the produce market I go to on my lunch hour, and I was leaning over the sushi counter intently studying the sushi options, when someone leaned over my shoulder and whispered in my ear “This one is always MY favorite …” as he reached around me and grabbed one of the containers.
I stood up and here was this man handing me a sushi container, smiling, and looking in my eyes. He then handed it to me and said “Enjoy your lunch” … then walked away! I actually chased him down in the next aisle, thanked him for his lunch suggestion and gave him my number …
KM if you know what you are doing is not manipulative than why are you afraid of being exposed? you can’t simply have your co-workers say “oh god that guy KM is so confident and so attractive, its creepy”
David: Get the cops from “RENO 911″ do all the busting!
Jim
Now that would be funny!!!
KM80-
You make a great point – its hte subconscious/instinctive level that we should focus on, as opposed to a chasing mode. It’s a contradiction, because not chasing is the natural thing for men to do. Chasing behaviors on the surface seem to be societal conditioning, or are they?
This is an interesting question to explore.
Jule
Point well taken and yes if his success proof is a reality show then i will agree with you.
You need to be able to stand behind your statements and prove from your own experiences.
Its like the guy what watches a lawyer show and starts quoting law!
Rey,
That is a GREAT point … Why do these PUA guys get so defensive when you question them?
You notice that David feels confident enough in what he teaches to tell people to choose what works best for them. He never gets defensive when questioned …
Interesting …
Jim,
Better yet … let’s get David to get into Reno 911 attire and head up these busts!
Lauren
So he did the walk away on you!!
i wrote a great blog on that a while back.
http://www.davidwygant.com/blog/you-want-her-numberwalk-away/
Check it out it is all about exactly what you experienced
Kristen-
Good point, because the PUA mindset is MANUFACTURED credibility that survives only when someone else validates it. To PUA’s, opinions of them survive more in the minds of others than themselves.
So its quite natural for them to get defensive when someone criticizes them, more so than David would. We’ve all been there, though it could be attributed to the fact that PUA’s are on average younger than David and his clients.
Damn David … It’s like you were channeling me! That blog is scary similar … but I guess I am living proof that what you say in there is 100% true!!
Let me tell you — I haven’t been that hot for a guy in a LONG time. And I haven’t stopped thinking about him since!
Plus, can I tell you that was the first time EVER that I have gone running after a guy …
Lauren-
What a great story!! You totally are an example of what David teaches!! More men need to attract women that way!!
It’s just natural, sharing the moment, and not caring about what happens.
Lauren
Its good for you to chase…..great exercise.
Lauren
I also think more women need to put themselves out there like this. Its all about taking chances and having fun!!
Enuf piling on poor Jeff here …
Can we be honest here? EVERY guy wants to get laid – and the PUA methods get that done.
David, if you were being honest with the guys (and the women) who read your blog, you would admit that you feel this way too
All you guys just don’t want to seem like jerks so you don’t admit it. You want to seem like your “deeper” than the rest of us
My proof that this stuff works works up a sweat in my bed every weekend … no reality show needed as proof here
You know whats funny.
Where is Joan during all of this.
She would enjoy this thread.
Sweat in the bed…..
Have you ever read my blog deeper bragger.
http://www.davidwygant.com/blog/are-you-a-deeper-bragger-plus-free-podcast/
Men who tend to brag are full of hot air.
Quiet confidence is what drives a woman crazy
Here’s my take on what it all comes down to…
It’s AWESOME that there are now resources that appeal to whatever place a guy may be coming from when it relates to learning about women.
The problem is that some people get so lost in their routine based mindset that they forget to truly evolve as a human being.
So all in all, I think David’s approach to learning this stuff is still the best all around though.
David,
How can you tell which of these guys out there are for real, like you, or are just full of it? I have experienced a few of these guys (through purchase of programs) and they all seem like they really care.
David DeAngelo (which is an alias), for example, seems as if he is in it to truly help men. But then he promotes all of the other guys, some of whom don;t seem so reputable.
What about Neil Strauss? He’s another who has a premiere business in this game and he’s all over the place.
On a final note, after all my stumbling through this arena, I have come around to believe, as you previously stated, that it all depends on what you’re going for, how you want to build and improve yourself. That’s why I have decided that I really want to work with you as soon as I can get your fee together. You help women as well as men and that I think makes you stand out as the best choice.
Thanks David.
Thanks Rich
Well, I can say that if I’m at all representative of the woman population, that indeed what David teaches absolutely 100% does work!
David, I know what you’re saying is true … what’s funny though is that but for that guy making me tingle from head to toe I probably would never have done it. Maybe it’s good not to let yourself debate about stuff too long and just do them!
danm Lauren if every girl were as action oriented as you id be in heaven! by the way the podcast is awesome, especially the part about overdoing things, i used to do it all the time. and than i realize all i have to do is chill out and relax!
Joey-
I agree that guys want to get off and have sex and it can be all about that.
But it is really about getting a normal woman like Lauren so turned on and hot for you and chasing after you.
Only because that feeling is amazing for both of you! Its not about the end results like you just bragged about.
Its about the fun/excitement/attraction more than the results. Your dick will come out at the right time!
Ryan
I know all the big names in the industry and some are great marketers. I think every guy you mentioned has some great tips that you can learn from.
They have really researched the art of meeting women
But you need to stick with the guru who resonates with you.
I tell guys all the time that guru jumping is not a good thing…it gets really confusing.
So stick with the person who resonates with you and your belief system
Well this has certainly been an entertaining group of comments to catch up on … but of course I had to chime in to echo David’s question —
Joan, where are you sweetie??? I miss you!
Won’t you come on here and say hello? I’ll be waiting …
As for the blog today, Dr. Bob could keep his calendar pretty full talking to some of these guys …
although Dr. Bob would rather keep his schedule full of time with Joan …
Ryan-
You sound like you would be great at the bootcamp! I agree with you that PUA is not a universal term that we want to apply to everybody 100%. Its more a mindset that some guys have more than others.
And some of hte guys you mention certainly have it more than David Wygant does. But that does not invalidate what they teach at all. Or their stature in the industry, or their value as a person.
Dr Bob
Always great to see you on the blog!!!!
I think Joan has run from you!
I have a cold and i am in denial and i am going to get everyone sick. For some reason i have no manners and feel the need to cough all over everyone and everything.
Do you think it is my youth?
Or i just dont care about anyone else?
Ryan brought up Neil Strauss…
I don’t think he should really count though. I think Neil genuinely cares about the men he teaches, but he’s so famous due to writing “the Game” that I think he may have his own unique motivations for coaching others.
If you just want to discuss motivation and life purpose, I think Mystery would be a better question here. The dude is still great at what he does in his own special right, but I kinda get the sense that he just wants the fame sometimes.
i agree Taras! but the question is if i have all this power, will i still genuinely want to help people out? or will i just get lost in the fame and money. because a lot of times people’s direction drifts once the money and fame start coming their way.
But talk about nick names, the dudes still using his nick name till this day : )
Yes Rey, AND he still uses silly terms like “avatar”
Rey
Is about to get Rich sick right now!!!
Taras
I agree what is an avatar? I always laughed at them
this office is racist! they all pick on me because i’m yerrow
i’m not sick, i just have a bad allergy….
avatar sounds like something straight out of a video game! and David, stop negging me! its hurt my feerings
Rey-
Money and Fame does screw up the picture. Just think about how it has changed the life of Neil Strauss. Before he was a gimmicky pick up artist and now that world is revealed to the entire nation in books and reality TV shows.
Luckily it has changed the community towards more of a natural approach. Or farther away from pure PUA.
Aw Rey … Don’t feel singled out! I think you are in an office where everyone from every group gets picked on equally – an equal offender environment!
That should make you feel like part of the family
David,
To answer your question, an “avatar” is a guy’s personal style, clothes, and physical appearance.
Rey,
Stop getting people sick already! Geez…
Thanks keep in mind I am old:)
thanks kristen! at least now i know someone cares about me : )
lol Taras instead of just apperance they have to say avatar.
yes they have to “dhv” with their “avatar” or else they might not get “i.o.i.’s” from the “target” and remain an “afc”
lol
The best DHV’s are DHV spikes when you are in storytelling mode!! Then you can neg with “Beauty is common, but what are three traits that you are known for besides that?”…
wow u guy really having fun talking i wish someday i could be like u guy or maybe join ur team or something.
Joan, you haven’t run from me, have you?
I know you miss me …
David,
A deeper bragger indeed he is …
That was a great blog – it was fun to go back and read it!
Just got back on the computer after a couple days. I would like to make a post recommendation. This would have to be a post be Khiem, for reasons I’ll make clear momentarily. I am not a PUA nor do I intend to defend them, but all the bashing on here seems to be done in ignorance, mostly by some of the commenters, I know David is aware of the stuff I am going to bring up, because it is entirely focused on Mystery Method, indirect, routine based “game”. There is a whole other side to the PUA community that should be addressed, and that is natural game. Natural game uses no routines, is based on confident direct approachs, genuine conversation and connection, and escalation. These are not terms David uses, but they are what he teaches. My post suggestion is for someone, such as Kheim, who in in the know about both David and the whole natural game community of PUAs, such as Charisma Arts, Vin Dicarlo, and the guys over at the Art of Charm (Pickup Podcast) post a blog explaining the difference, and answering the question, how is David’s material not very much in the realm of that aspect of the community? My contention simply is that he may not be a PUA, but he teaches natural game.
Some good did come out of the PUA community, at least for me. It led me to this blog and Dave’s products. To paraphrase what I heard earlier on this thread, quiet confidence is key and those PUA guys don’t sell anything like that. Their marketing is so mechanized and relentless, I just know that they are selling some scripted thing. I can’t live by a script.
Great comment Steve!
You are the perfect example of someone who has gone on a journey to find out how to become the kind of guy you want to be …
… and so if the PUA community led you to David and to finding the way to that quiet confidence, then I would agree that indeed it did do some good
Hey Jeff II,
Interesting point.
I believe you that there are different methods other than the ones we’ve all been talking about on here, and that some of them are more “natural-based,” but one thing in your comment stuck out to me …
… when you talk about the natural style PUAs, you refer to them as teaching “natural GAME.”
So while I would believe that what they teach could be a lot more similar to what David teaches, I don’t think that what David teaches is a “game” of any kind. He is all about just learning to have authentic and true inner confidence, and becoming attractive by being friendly, observant, listening and having conversations with people everywhere.
I am not familiar with what you were talking about, but I just wonder about whether this natural game is not a difference of form over substance in terms of the PUA methods we’ve been talking about above?
I’m coming into this conversation way late, but I’m going to play devil’s advocate. Women read Cosmo and other magazines about how to more effectively attract the kind of men they want and to keep their interest … and approach the whole mating dance in a way that they can feel good about themselves regardless of the outcome. Yet god forbid that men should learn how to improve their ability to meet, communicate with and seduce women.
This whole “be yourself” credo is crap, because it implies you should fumble through social interactions with whatever bad habits, flawed thinking and negative personality traits you currently possess. Life is about growth and self-improvement.
So I would ask the women, would they prefer a man who, in being himself, approaches them with “Hey baby, you are sooo hot!”? Or a man who LEARNED to approach with something like: “I don’t have any clever lines, but I thought I’d come over and say, ‘Hi.’”
I’ve studied Mystery, along with many other teachers. Now that the Mystery Method has gone mainstream, it is predictably being picked apart and maligned. Yes, for me personally, some of the scripting is false and mechanistic and treats women like they are computers that can be directed by hitting command keys.
But the basic principles are sound, such as asking a woman her opinion or telling a fun story or demonstrating quickly without bragging that I’m worth her time. Mystery’s most valuable contribution to the art of dating is seldom mentioned: the phases of seduction. I won’t get into that here.
As for the other stuff being bashed in this forum:
*Routines. They are extended ice-breakers. A generic way to get a conversation rolling with a woman predisposed to reject yet another strange guy approaching her. The whole point is to get to where a real and spontaneous conversation can happen. Whether we admit it or not, the first moments before a mating dance begins are mostly about presentation.
*Negging. This is much maligned. It’s just playful jabbing done in jest. Women do this to me as much or more than I do it to them. Also known as teasing.
*Peacocking. At a seminar, Mystery explained it was a way for a man to show an attractive woman, who is used to drawing attention, that he can handle the social pressure of attracting attention himself. I’ve never gone to the extreme of Mystery and his cohorts. I prefer to stand out by being stylish and projecting playful energy.
Just because you learn a “method” doesn’t mean you have to be inauthentic. If I tell a story, it’s something that really happened to me. If I ask a woman her opinion, it’s something for which I genuinely want a female perspective.
It’s all about intention. I approach a woman with the intent of what I can give her, not what I can get. If a so-called PUA technique gets her to smile, what’s the harm?
Hey Scott,
Clearly you have found the PUA to work (and work well) for you. If you found that method to resonate with you, and you feel like you achieved the changes internally and the results w/ women you want then thats great!
I have worked w/ David, and found what he teaches to be totally lifechanging – not just in my success w/ women but also in me becoming such a better and more confident man along the way. So clearly what David teaches resonates w/ me.
Heres my only issues w/ your comment. I think your woman reading Cosmo analogy is flawed. Just as there are arguably better or worse advice for men, there is better and worse advice for women. So just because one source might teach women how to “manipulate” men doesnt mean thats what everyone teaches them. And i have heard David talking about women and he does not advise them to manipulate when he coaches them.
My bigger question in your comment was on your scoffing at the “be yourself” idea. This was the one thing that makes me question everything else you say about the PUA methods – dont you think it is possible for any guy to “be himself” but just learn how to become the confident and woman-educated version of him? I would not have liked David to teach me to become someone else …
But I’m glad youve had such good luck
Wow!
Makes me want to read “the Game” (as has been recommended to me by a female (!) friend of mine), but something tells me it’ll be a waste of time, so i’ll just stick to my good old novels
why would you want to sit in solitude and read about how to approach/seduce a woman/man, instead of just going out there and creating action of your own? (Regardless of who the author is and what the content of the book/advice is/are)
As for “being yourself”, has anyone heard of Robert Jackson’s podcast series of “A Quiet Mind?” (the self honesty part) I don’t believe you ever change yourself.. You’re still you even if your mindset/habits/behaviour change/s… Some are more willing to learn more about themselves; and so realize that they have a personality with qualities you didn’t recognize before.. which makes you all the more confident! I believe in learning more about yourself and self – awareness
I don’t know how you work with people in person, David, as I haven’t met you and found your site rather coincidentially so I shall say no more! You seem like a fun person/coach, though.. I must admit that what little my friend told me and showed me of Mystery caught my attention and almost charmed me
I have noticed that there has several times here been mentioned that women/girls (whatever) who fall for/like PUAs are BIMBOS?! Why? Don’t they have the need to get laid as much as those guys? Seems as if they give those PUAs what they want because they want the same thing..If they wanted genuine connections etc etc, they would not follow PUAs..It certainly takes two, alright.. No judging here..
hmmm, somehow my comment seems stupid! haha
Kristen,
I just ask that people understand that by simply bashing the community, you are bashing an entire group of diverse people. In other contexts, race, class, religion, et. al. this would be completely unacceptable. I am just saying it should be unacceptable in all circumstances.
Game is just symantics (sp?). A word I used, because it is used in the community to describe what I was talking about. Put it this way to you. I took a bootcamp from one of the groups I mentioned. What did I learn? Zero scripted things to say. I learned good eye contact. I learned to be curious and interested in the person I was talking to. I learned the importance of displaying your true personality in a confident and positive manner. I learned how to communicate in a manner that isn’t totally logical (David calls it she talk). I learned the importance of touch in building rapport and comfort. I learned so much more, I could go on for a while. And it was all totally above board. Not stuff that is sneaky or manipulative or scripted or anything other than spontaneous and natural. In fact, it is so above board, one of the instructors had his sister there to help out in situations where a group of people was needed and another had his girlfriend there for the same purpose.
Simply put, it really isn’t game at all. It is simply another form of what you get here everyday.
Regards
Jeff
Scott,
Thank man. Perfect summary of what good the community can do.
Nate,
It isn’t about not being yourself. It is about being the best version of yourself. I am paraphrasing Neil Strauss here, but what is yourself. It is simply the collection of habits, behaviors, thought processes et. al. that you have developed over time. It isn’t a static, unchangeable thing. Who you are today will be different from who you are in a year, 10 years, 50 years, just as it is different from who you were 10 years ago, 5 years ago, last year. So, if yourself can and does change, how are you not being yourself by learning better interaction and attraction skills. As you said, why not just become a woman educated confident you. That is what you are doing when you learn PUA stuff, natural or indirect. Sure you may start out, if you are using Mystery Method, using scripts, but they are designed to be training wheels, to get you started on how to attract and build rapport. Once you internalize the theory and style behind the scripts, you become confident around women, because you know that you can present yourself and your own life in an engaging manner (the same exact end result David teaches, just without the training wheels to start). That makes you woman educated and totally yourself, just a better version of you.
Hey Jeff —
I hear you and I see where you’re coming from … I just disagree with you about the “be yourself” thing … I think each of us has some inherent personality traits … and that we can and should all keep those even while we become better, more confident and more skilled men.
I don’t think your personality is created – I think it’s inherent in your being – it’s just a matter of how you grow, learn and change …
Just my opinion bro …
This has been one of the most interesting blogs lately…I have never heard of so many terms and names….like peacocking (wtf??) and VinDiCarlo(lol,etc.
As one of the few married men here (who admit it when they post) this back and forth on the merits of PUA (I learned this term recently after hanging out here) has been lots of fun and educational.
JustMe wrote this:”I have noticed that there has several times here been mentioned that women/girls (whatever) who fall for/like PUAs are BIMBOS?! Why? Don’t they have the need to get laid as much as those guys?”
I think lots of men want that and that is the reason why lots of single men gravitate towards the services of these gurus. As David said, nothing wrong with that, if it works for you and the bimbo, all the power to you both!
As a note, after hanging around here for a while, I did inititate a conversation with a lady in an elevator today and we actually had a great conversation…Before I met David’s blog, I was still in a fog in my own world:-)
Dan –
Love having the perspective of a married guy on here! It’s great … and it shows how there are things for everyone to learn (like what you mentioned) from David that go way beyond just meeting people
I enjoyed all of the comments here but it all boils down to what YOU are comfortable with and as long as nobody gets hurt its all good.For myself over the past month I have put Dave’s suggestions to the test with poor results.Now maybe it’s just me but I practiced the eye contact,being observant to my surroundings,using the walk away in the grocery store,the fake text from a friend and leaving and on and on and on.
There is no “Magic Bullet” when it comes to approaching/dating the opposite sex.Maybe im just to old (47) and out of touch but whatever happened to a time when a man could just honestly approach a woman and start a conversation without all this other “crap” in the way.What is she drinking,saying,eating,wearing and who her friends are.
I wish everyone the best and good health
Nate,
Cool. Just a thought. So I may understand your perspective,
You say:
I don’t think your personality is created – I think it’s inherent in your being – it’s just a matter of how you grow, learn and change …
1. How are inherent traits related to how you grow, learn and change.
2. What are some inherent parts of a person’s personality that have nothing to do with upbringing and the environment.
3. What if there are inherent traits that make it difficult to impossible to attract a woman of the quality you desire.
Wow! You’ve had poor results. It sounds like you’re not working on your confidence as David suggests and you’re looking for the magic bullet of some of tte approaches. I’ve tried lots of guys stuff, and David’s is the only stufft that works — but I’ve also purchased his products which go far deeper than the blogs.
I read his blogs, I was interested in whagt he has to say, but then I knew i had to work on deeper inner confidence than waht I could get just from the blog. I went and purchased the mastery series – and saw that it’s not just the approaches – it’s all about working on your confidence.
Dude, you’re not too old, you’re 47. I’m 45 and I think David is 46 … this stuff works! I mean he’s talkign about walking up to woman being casual and natural – so I thnkn and feel like you’re loooking for a magic bullet instead of also working on the deeper stuff.
You’ve got to realize that these blogs are just the tip of the iceberg – you can’t expect someone to give away all their stuff for free. You’ve got to go deep — in the mastery series, for instance, he tells you to go out and do observations for a whole week.
I used to be like you – I tried a few approaches, a few looks, a few observations and they didn’t work right away. You need to understand that until you work on the deeper stuff it’s not going to work.
It’s SO EASY NOW — yuou just need to do the work. I read you’re post and I felt so bad for you! Cause you are what I used to be! So I suggest you dig deep, pony uup the dough and invest in the mastery series. It’s so worth it!
Thanks for the advice Nate.I have listened to some of his CD’s and Im sure his complete series is great however I have gone out for over a month straight implementing the strategies,projecting confidence and being natural.For some of us I guess it’s just this way.Whats frustrating is I have a couple of friends who say to me “If I had your height(6-4) and looks (average) I would have women all the time”.I tell them it has not helped me one bit but it came in handy when I played High School and College BBall.
I have really enjoyed reading the females comments and getting a different perspective.I would like to say that it is difficult getting through this “So Cal I think Im a goddess mentality” with the women here.Im in San Diego and it’s bad here but when I go to Orange county or LA OUCH!!!!!
Thanks again Nate
Hey Blazn2go –
Like Nate, I felt bad when I read your post — but I also felt like I had some insight and personal experience that could be helpful to you …
I not only read all of David’s blogs and watched all the videos, but even read one of his ebooks and listened to one of the audio programs — Still the most incredible stuff I’d ever heard … but initially it didn’t work for me either. The reason? Because I didn’t work on any of the confidence and mindset stuff at first and just tried to focus solely on “mechanics”
Once I “got” that what David teaches depends on learning and embracing the deeper stuff – I started to make some improvements … having the audio program was REALLY helpful … and I began to “get it”
Then I took a BIG leap — I came to one of David’s bootcamps in LA. Truly it changed my life forever. Really internalizing what David teaches and immersing myself in it was a life-changing experience.
It took me a little time to really take all of this stuff in – but like Nate says, once you do that — this stuff truly becomes EASY (because it is just part of “who you are!”) You never have to work at it because what David teaches you to become is authentically confident … so you never have to “work” at “being” confident anymore — you just ARE.
If I were you, I would take Nate’s suggestion and get yourself that Mastery Series — to me investing in this stuff was worth it’s weight in gold …
Also, once you’ve done the confidence work — you’ll REALLY enjoy these blogs and videos even more — cause you’ll get to apply all this mechanics stuff with the right foundation and it’s all fun from there
All the best of luck to you
Thanks Kristen I appreciate your comments however I think I will just lay low and whatever life brings I will accept.Im very blessed in my life with good health,three kids that make me so proud and a successful investing career.It would be nice to finally share my success with someone special but Im grateful for what I DO have.
All the best to you and everyone on the blog!!
Blazn2go: I’m going to quote you on this – “Im in San Diego and it’s bad here but when I go to Orange County or LA OUCH!!!!!” The reason why nothing is working for you is because you’re projecting zero confidence.
Your friends have said if they had your height and looks they’d do great – but you don’t believe in yourself. I’ve read your posts… you don’t believe you can do this. You truly do not believe you can meet women. So when you walk over to them they smell fear.
So you’re just not grasping this – it’s not about using an opener. It’s about how you deliver it. Do you really believe in what you’re saying? Do you really believe in the observations? From everything you’ve written, it sounds like you really don’t believe you can do this.
You say in your post that you went out and “projected confidence.” This is telling me that you really don’t feel truly confident but were just faking it. You can’t fake this! Women can smell fear from a mile away …
You have a successful investment career, you should know enough to invest in yourself – that’s the most important thing! It’s great that you invest in money – but money is what gives you the freedom to pursue stuff like this. You should be the first guy reaching out to me for help!
I commend you for trying, but you’re not really vested in this. My Mastery Series comes with a full 90-day money back guarantee. If you truly believe you can do this and you bought it and it doesn’t work, then you can get your money back.
But I think you like to try it, and when it doesn’t work it makes you feel okay because you don’t have to push yourself harder. I’ve been doing this for 10 years. I’ve seen a ton of guys like you – and every one of them who truly believes they can do this in time CAN do it.
I’ll make an offer to you. Not only will I extend the 90-day money back guarantee that I give to everyone who buys my products, BUT if this doesn’t work for you I will personally set you up on a coaching call with one of my coaches to break through this belief system you have.
If my Mastery Series doesn’t work for you, one of my coaches will work with you at no cost to you in order to break through this fear. It’s your belief system my friend.
So if you truly belief you can do this after reading this post, you’ll order my Mastery Series. Cause I truly know my Mastery Series will help you blast through this.
If you’re willing to commit – I’m willing to commit to you. If I don’t see an order come in, I’ll know you are not willing to commit and you are not really willing to make a change in your life.
Hiding behind excuses has got to be getting old for you. I’ve lived in Los Angeles and San Diego, and I know what women are looking for here. They’re looking for a man who is real and not plastic.
I see great things in your future … but you’ve got to believe it. Do you accept my challenge or would you just rather live in fear?
Nice to hear from you Dave.Well if I was truly fearful I would not have taken the calculated risks in business and my investors wouldn’t have trusted me with their money.I certainly dont see myself as plastic or phoney in anyway Dave.Im as transparent as they come and certainly honest.
In this area of dealing with women I know I’m not the only one that sees this fake plastic facade with so many women in So Cal.I certainly did not experience this in the south.
Anyway I understand what your saying if I dont try your series I wont “get it”.Im not afraid of success I have gone through that barrier however just having a nice easy natural conversation with a woman with no pretentious crap is all I’m looking for at this point.I agree with you I have already seen great things in my life and I treat others the way I would like to be treated and if that is not good enough to get me by then so be it.
Take Care Dave
Business and personal are way different.
More to come….
Aw Blazn — I was waiting for your response with bated breath, crossing my fingers that you’d take David up on his offer. I’m so disappointed! I don’t see what you have to lose …
… plus your answer was disappointing because it seemed to almost deliberately misstate what David said to you. The fact that you’re successful and fearless in business has nothing to do with the fact that you have issues in your dating life … they’re mutually exclusive …
In fact it’s because you know what kind of work and dedication it takes to become successful in business that makes me think you don’t want to put that same kind of work and effort into this part of your life.
Finally, I was disappointed to see you use the “cop out” excuse that So Cal women in general are the problem instead of looking at yourself … I’ll grant you there are some very plastic and bimbo-like gals in the So Cal area — but there are women like that EVERYWHERE (just as there are great and fantastic women everywhere).
You should get rid of the it’s everyone else not me mindset, and the i’ve already tried your stuff so it must not work mindset, and REALLY be open to this ….
Hello Jules thanks for your input.I have to apologize for not giving some more info.I know none of you will believe this but while I was living in Wash DC until last year I did not run into this situation anywhere near what I have experienced back here in Calif.I have spent plenty of time in Texas,Georgia and the Midwest and the women their were so much more approachable and easier to get to know.This is not a cop out it is the truth shared by friends and business partners and we all come to the same conclusions that the women in these areas are different than women in So Cal.For your information my male friends and their wives/GF’s agree with me on this issue as well.So for other women to see it like I do confirms im not crazy,plastic,unconfidant or unwilling to look at all sides of the issue.
Jules I consider myself an open and reasonable individual and will think about all that has been said however I find it hard to bring myself to lie to a woman about receiving a phony text about how my buddy is feeling down about his break up and Im going to spend time with him just so I can pull at her heart strings.This is one of Dave’s suggestions to meet women in a trendy Bistro at 730pm on a Friday.I would be better off to stay in the frozen food section all day.
Take care Jules
Even though I’m hideously late, I just had to comment on a couple of things…
Scott:
“*Negging. This is much maligned. It’s just playful jabbing done in jest. Women do this to me as much or more than I do it to them. Also known as teasing.”
I suppose this might work, but honestly, I haven’t ever found this in the least bit charming during a first meeting. If you’ve known me for a few years, yeah slam just about anything except my kids…slam my kids, and I’ll hurt you.
Blazn:
How do you deal with women looking to invest their money? Do you not have to market yourself?
Hell, in my work life, people come to me, I don’t have to go get them, but I still have to market myself. I, too, have hit a stumbling block, but rather than thinking it is the advice that I’m purchasing, I think it has a lot more to do with how I was raised, and internal excuses both very difficult things to overcome. As to your fake women thing, well all I can say is you’re living at the wrong end of the state.
Hello Bertie thanks for the reply.I was raised in the San Jose area and sometimes I wonder.Im a Commercial Real Estate Investor(apartments,self-storage) and business is great however the women I do work with from time to time are ALWAYS
Hello Bertie thanks for the reply.I was raised in the San Jose area and sometimes I wonder.Im a Commercial Real Estate Investor(apartments,self-storage) and business is great however the women I do work with from time to time that Im attracted to are ALWAYS married,BF or out of a bad relationship.The typical girl who cant leave the a**hole who treats her like s**t.
I do get good referrals from other money partners when I bring a killer deal to make money so I dont chase people down.
Anyway your right on with family and how we are raised but be careful the rest of the group will say were copping out with more excuses.
Again thanks for all the input love the exchange.
DanTheOriginal: JustMe wrote this:”I have noticed that there has several times here been mentioned that women/girls (whatever) who fall for/like PUAs are BIMBOS?! Why? Don’t they have the need to get laid as much as those guys?”
I think lots of men want that and that is the reason why lots of single men gravitate towards the services of these gurus. As David said, nothing wrong with that, if it works for you and the bimbo, all the power to you both!
I totally agree, and I’m a 20 year old girl..lol, you misunderstood me a bit! I was just saying that I personally don’t judge those who want to get laid and go for the PUA ways (i know so little about PUA myself)
I have a friend of mine who’s a HUGE fan of Mystery! Now, she’s read The Game (it’s become her Bible.. hehe) and she claims to have read so she can understand men better.. :!
She wants to get a lay when she’s out partying.. and she wants to always be a step AHEAD of the guys who want the same thing.. confusing huh?
She’s into PUA, I’m not! I’m not into anything but real genuine, non fake stuff.. I guess I’m into David Wygant’s teachings then.. but since I haven’t been on any of his bootcamps or anything I can’t say I am following up on every advice of his..
Shoot, now I’m late for work! This PUA thing is really fascinating!
Oh, about fakeness, here’s a cool article I read a while back:
http://www.glamour.com/sexmen/articles/2008/02/men_crave_real_bodies?currentPage=4
Wow, 105 comments…David, is this the record so far??
JustMe: thanks for your response and sharing the article…Which leads me to ask a question I asked a long time ago and never got a response….regarding breast implants….Do men “know” they are implants by looking at or feeling them? Is it okay to ask the lady if they are real or is that considered a nono?
Ladies, please respond…I have been wondering about this for a long time!
Very interesting discussion this blog has generated!!
Hey Dan –
Yes the comments on this have been flying — lots of fun
As to your question, I don’t have implants myself, but a number of my friends do. I can tell you that none of them mind being asked — and in fact are quite proud of them and … for lack of a better term … are happy to have the good work they had “acknowledged”
I think that in times past that more women got breast implants hoping that no one would know they got them — but “now a days” I think there is no stigma to getting or having them and many women are quite proud of them.
As a woman I know instantly when a woman’s assets are real or fake — to me when I look at them there is no question about it. Preferences aside, the fake ones simply do not ever totally look real. Some look more natural than others – but it’s never hard to tell
Don’t know if that answers your question or not
Blazn,
Have you thought about why you’re attracted to women who can’t seem to leave a bad relationship? Oh, and just an FYI, San Jose, and the greater Bay area are not at the other end of the state….Oh, once upon a time, I too, thought that was Northern California….
Blazn To Go
Do you reread what you write?
I never ever wrote a piece about telling women your friend had a breakup. Yes meeting women before the drunks get to them is a great idea.
I am all about being real with women but you do not see that for some reason.
And if you were such a risk taker as you say you are you would have taken me up an offer that was win win for you.
I read your post and i am so happy for you that everyone you know has all the same excuses as you. Life is all about attraction and a mirror.
If you complain about the people in your area you will find other people who do the same yet you area contradiction.
YOu also in another post talk about the people that tell you that you should not have any problems.
I lived in San Diego and I have friends down there that meet great women.
I also live in LA and i meet great people and great women.
Its your attitude whether you want to admit it or not……I have seen and worked with guys like you for the last 10 years.
Successful in business and and full of excuses in dating and meeting women.
You would rather find people who agree with you so it can confirm your belief system than take me up on my offer.
You are not ready to make any changes yet.
When you are I will be here for you….but right now you would rather come up with every reason not to succeed.
If you were like this in business you would not be living the lifestyle that you do….you would be hanging out at an exit on I 5 with a sign asking for money.
Sorry for being so harsh but someone needs to kick your ass…….there are some great women out there that are looking for great guys.
Cmon man open your mind a bit!!!
David,
Are you sure that its just not being able to commit to the change rather than there being some reason why he chooses to meet with women who are in some way unavailable?
I’ve caught myself doing that…only interested in men that live at least an hour away from me….
Dan – I loved that article when I read it, it had such strong messages! (I even wrote a short blog of my own about it
)
Jules when you say that women who have implants nowadays are proud of these.. how long have you known these women? I’m sure that when they took those they were not sure about themselves and thought that the implants would make them happier.. but eventually they are going to realize that implants was not the thing! What’s inside of them won’t go away by making external changes..
Back to your question Dan, I agree with Jules, you can actually see it when a girl/woman has implants or not. I don’t know anybody who has got implants (fortunately!!), but I’ve read somewhere that real breasts “hang” more downwards than fake ones do.. the nipples are in their “right place” on real ones.. if you “cut” the breast in half, the nipple is supposed to be just under the upper half.. not in the middle..
or something like that.
Ugh, I just remembered when my ex told me he wanted me to get silicon in my breasts.. I told him noo several times! Heck, I’m against fake stuff! I barely wear make – up! He was just into xxxxx large boobs, whereas mine are normal…I never took that personally thought, cause I have always been strong on that point. No guy is gonna tell me whether how my body should look!
Interesting discussions.. Sorry to have brought up things that had nothing or very little to do about the blog
corrections:
I never took that personally though*, cause I have always been strong on that point. No guy is gonna tell me ** how my body should look!
Well, having been in healthcare for a few years…boob jobs get more “real” looking every day. I don’t know that I can agree with an external change not making an internal change happen. Just ask any late bloomer.
PS: I had to reread the comments..
I forgot to say this: it’s not a big no no to ask a lady whether or not she has implants..
hehe..
In the article, the author burned himself by asking the ladies he went out with..
My take is that if it matters to you if a woman has implants, why shouldn’t you ask? If the woman decided to go for implants she should stand for it!! If you ask her and she says they are real and can proove it, then she should take it as a compliment
JustMe,
I think you misunderstood my comment a bit — I meant more what you said in your last comment, i.e., that most women who get implants now are proud of their decision to do it – and will be happy to tell you so
I don’t take a position on getting implants … to each her own
Having a naturally large chest, I personally don’t understand why women would WANT to get them … but if they make them happy then fantastic!
Bertie – I just read that somwhere, I actually am not sure myself if that was true or not..Haven’t done any research on it.. though it would be interesting
One can never tell and all of a sudden we’re living in a world full of nip tucked human beings..
Is it positive that boob jobs get more “real” looking?
Oh, another thing, women should not NOT want them because men wouldn’t like that, either..
External changes can make internal changes happen! In fact, it’s inevitable, but it’s not always the right way to make a change.. The best changes comes from the inside out.. The big changes that is..
BTW — I remember David talking about this “fake boobs” issue in a blog. I did a search, and here’s the link to it …
Very funny blog
http://www.davidwygant.com/blog/whats-up-with-fake-boobs/
Thanks for clearing that up, Jules
I see I see.. it has, sadly, become a trend and it’s not so “dangerous” anymore to reveal your “jobs”
If a friend of mine decides to have her breasts enlarged I would not mind that, but I would seriously question her reasons for doing so..
Personally speaking I accepted a long time ago how my body looks and I am happy with that.. and have grown to love it, flaws and all
JustMe –
The way you have totally accepted your body (”flaws and all” as you say), not only in my opinion puts you at your very young age WAY ahead of 90% of women …. but will make you (and your body) more attractive to men due to how you feel about yourself!
I only “know” boobs cause I listen to hearts all day. I’ll never forget the first time I saw a pair of fake ones. She probably had hers done in the early seventies which would have made her about fifty at the time……and well…when she was approaching eighty lets just say they weren’t so pretty anymore. Collagen deteriorates and its a sad thing. I’d like to know what the newer procedures look like in twenty years or so….I’m sure I’ll still be listening to hearts….
I don’t know about the best changes being internal ones. My external one happened through no conscious decision on my part, but it did do a lot to help me feel better about the inside. Growing up having been the ugly duckling, I can say that the external change helped turn my attitude around.
Jules! I read that blog you linked me.. Hilarious! Thank you for saying that
Luckily I have had some great role models in my life and I have always been critical to media!
Bertie – I must appologize.. I was just now thinking about that show “Extreme Makeover” (I still loathe it!! It’s soo.. nah, I’ll just keep those opinions to myself) and came to think of people being really really really unhappy because of looks and other external issues that an external change is what they need to make themselves happy.. Sounds like you’ve had some issues like that and I am sorry for being so one sided and saying that an internal change is the best one, but I believe it has made you stronger? I was being too rash.. as I often get when discussing topics that are close to my heart..
However, when you want a change it should be because you want it yourself, not your bf, not your husband, not your friends..
Blazn2go –
Dude, I gotta be honest with you — your response to David’s email and offer sounded an awful lot like a whole bunch of EXCUSES … Really.
It’s as if you have an excuse to TRY anymore … and I think maybe David hit the nail on the head when he said that you are somehow comfortable to be able to say that something doesn’t work so you won’t have to try.
First you blamed your geography. Then you blamed the kind of women you meet. Then you blamed ONE (apparently not true) technique that David suggested. Then you blamed some expectation of having to be something you’re not…
IF you truly believed that you have confidence as you say, then you would not feel the need to be so defensive about all this.
Again, you as such a successful guy, should know better than anyone that success comes after a series of trials, errors and failures. It sounds like you tried a few things one or twice … or even for a month as you say … but then when you weren’t immediately successful you just quit!
If you were truly open to learning this stuff, I can’t think of one single reason why you would not have bought the mastery series and given David’s offer a try. You have nothing to lose …
The fact that you are resigning yourself to this “wait – and if it’s meant to be it’s meant to be” attitude is so sad … Why wouldn’t you want to be in control of your own destiny and be able to pursue whomever you want?
I’m betting that you are not teaching your kids to be quitters, and that if they were trying to learn something you’d tell them to keep trying and studying until they got it … You need to do the same. I suspect that being so successful in your business it is hard for you to struggle in something … but once you admit that you need to go deeper and change things about YOU and YOUR MINDSET, you’ll be able to get this stuff no problem.
GET RID OF THE EXCUSES MAN!! I hope you decide to reconsider and do this …
Hello Nate.Im not defensive Im stating facts.Are you listening to me!I told you I had a good dating situation in other parts of the country however I have been so disappointed with the lack of quality women here in Calif.Im here because of family,you cant beat the weather and so many of the investors I work with are here.
Im trying to find the blog that Dave wrote;
A selector will walk over to a group of
women with a very clever opener that will
get them speaking and competing for his
attention.
For instance, you’re in a bar and three
women are standing there. They’ve already
rejected two or three guys. A routine guy
will walk over with the same routine that
those last guys did.
A selector will walk over with a purpose -
he is going to get every woman intrigued
by him.
One of my favorite openers in a bar is
”:
“the text opener.” I will have my friend
text me this into my phone: “Hmmm . . . Last
night was really interesting. What are
you doing later?
Now that you have this in your phone,
you need a back story. The back story is
that you went out with this woman the night
before, had a glass of wine, and said goodnight
without any kiss.
So you approach the group of three women,
and you ask them “Can I have your opinion
on something? Before I show you what I need
your opinion on, I need to tell you the back story.”
Then you explain to them about the date the night
before. And then . . . the fun begins.
You pass them the phone, and every one of
them will have a comment. Within three to
five minutes, you will find out about their
booty call rules and their dating habits.
I believe the 10pm Rule blog is where I read Daves article on going to a hot trendy spot at 730pm and use the fake text.Look I cant in good conscious and neither should any guy use a LIE
Hello Nate.Im not defensive Im stating facts.Are you listening to me!I told you I had a good dating situation in other parts of the country however I have been so disappointed with the lack of quality women here in Calif.Im here because of family,you cant beat the weather and so many of the investors I work with are here.
Im trying to find the blog that Dave wrote;
A selector will walk over to a group of
women with a very clever opener that will
get them speaking and competing for his
attention.
For instance, you’re in a bar and three
women are standing there. They’ve already
rejected two or three guys. A routine guy
will walk over with the same routine that
those last guys did.
A selector will walk over with a purpose -
he is going to get every woman intrigued
by him.
One of my favorite openers in a bar is
”:
“the text opener.” I will have my friend
text me this into my phone: “Hmmm . . . Last
night was really interesting. What are
you doing later?
Now that you have this in your phone,
you need a back story. The back story is
that you went out with this woman the night
before, had a glass of wine, and said goodnight
without any kiss.
So you approach the group of three women,
and you ask them “Can I have your opinion
on something? Before I show you what I need
your opinion on, I need to tell you the back story.”
Then you explain to them about the date the night
before. And then . . . the fun begins.
You pass them the phone, and every one of
them will have a comment. Within three to
five minutes, you will find out about their
booty call rules and their dating habits.
I believe the 10pm Rule blog is where I read Daves article on going to a hot trendy spot at 730pm and use the fake text.Look I cant in good conscious and neither should any guy use a LIE to start a conversation,it catches up to you but you dont seem to address this Dave.You want to deflect back to me as if Im doing something wrong.If waiting for an honest situatuon to present itself to be able to break the ice is wrong in your book Dave then I can live with it.I can look at myself in the mirror and sleep well knowing I have been honest with myself and the women I approach.
I know all of you will spin this against me however This forum is all about different view points and what people feel and observe.I would really like to hear a woman’s perspective on this.
As always great comments
Great blog Dave
Hey Blazn2go:
You are ALL excuses man … sorry to be blunt but it’s true.
Out of all of the comments from David, myself (and I think one or two others), you come back with just these two points: (1) you don’t like the caliber of women in CALIF. (big area my friend) and (2) you object to ONE idea for an opener that David mentioned in one blog …
I think if you were being honest with yourself (and again not trying to find EXCUSES), that your answer is a little silly. David has never told men to go out and LIE to women and if you REALLY had read his stuff (and not just one article) you would know that …
Also, if you don’t like that one idea for an approach then you could certainly learn ALL the confidence and mindset stuff (along with ALL the observation-related openers) and still gain a ton.
I guess David’s right about you … you obviously really don’t want to change … too bad.
Well I’m a woman and I gave you my opinions Blazn2go both last night and this morning … but you disregarded them along with those of David and Nate …
Hi Blazntogo,
I also (as a woman) gave you my opinion last night … but so as not to “pile on” here, let me give you a few additional thoughts on this as I think I am like you in a lot of ways.
I did not come to learn the confidence and mindset stuff easily – or quickly. I am someone who has always been very driven and confident in my career – and it was hard not to be frustrated about having a hard time being that confident in my personal life. It is also kind of a pride thing … you don’t want to admit that you need to do some significant work in this area … work that will require you to delve into places inside yourself that are not east to confront sometimes.
The fact that you’ve dated or had some dating success in your past and in other geographical areas I think is irrelevant … and I think is distracting you from the real issue here. I really do understand where you’re coming from too as I also was not “dateless” coming into this whole thing…
What I think you’re overlooking is that you are NOT totally confident and comfortable approachiing and talking to any woman you want – period. You attribute this to the type of women you’re meeting and a lot of other things, but I think if you were authentically and deeply confident and comfortable with yourself you would not care about the fact that you’ve run into these kind of women, because you’d KNOW you CAN and WILL meet the kind of women you’re looking for …
It’s this kind of quiet and SURE confidence (and this kind of mindset ) that I think you need to work on … and you have to allow it might be hard to get there – and may involve some faltering steps along the way.
I was also as I suspect you are – you take all your attempts in this area as pieces of evidenct – if you try an opener and it doesn’t work, then the whole system that David teaches must be flawed. It doesn’t work that way … You have to be willing to keep working on this stuff until it works – and be confident it will.
As a woman who has been coached by David, allow me to assure you that he is not about teaching men to LIE to women … and I think you took that one example way out of proportion in all fairness …
I know you probably feel like you’re getting a little bit “attacked” on here, but I think people just want to help you … Think about it …
Well, since my last entry, boob implants have come into the dialogue. That brings up a deep and complex subject about linking body image to self-esteem, and the degree to which “fixing” what you consider are physical flaws becomes unhealthy. I’ll let you guys hash that one out.
In response to some comments made about my statements:
I stand by my statement about how “being yourself” CAN be a mantra for lazy inaction. You are NOT your habits. From a spiritual perspective, your personality is not your true self. Your personality is the changeable outward expression of your spirit or essence.
It is how you relate to other people.
If you have a habit of interrupting somebody or being argumentative, you could simply write off that behavior as: “Hey, that’s me. That’s just my personality.” If you work to change those tendencies, you will have made marked changes in your personality.
“Your Erroneous Zones” by Wayne Dyer, delves in-depth on this very subject. It’s his first and best book.
Also, I never meant to suggest that women were learning to manipulate men by reading magazines and books. I was speaking more on how women are generally way ahead of men in dealing with male/female dynamics BECAUSE they are willing to read about it.
Overall, women are humble enough to realize they don’t know everything about men and relationships, and should seek some advice. Men, by contrast, have traditionally shunned coaching of any kind when it comes to women. Their egos have stopped them. Also, it’s not been socially acceptable for men to do anything but go by their instincts, many of which are bad.
Mystery was one piece of the puzzle for me. People seem to forget that his method is geared mainly to meeting groups of women in nightclubs. Connecting with a woman one-on-one is much different than when she’s with a group of friends, especially if they’re in a bar.
That said, I have to agree with you all about the nickname game. Strauss aka Style said it’s a way for a socially awkward guy to create a cool, suave alter ego that he can eventually merge with. I don’t need that crutch.
Its so funny how you dont address the issue and you deflect back to me.It is a fact in his posts that he wants you to make up false openings.I cant believe you agree with this.Look Im a very honest person when it comes to business and my self as aperson thats why investors trust me with their money and they are comfortable with me personally and professionally.
It’s not my imagination or me being negative I know what is going on around me and so many others both male and female agree with me soooooo.
Now I like the idea of walking up to a sushi counter and handing a woman your favorite choice and then walking away now thats honest and spontaneous.
Look all of you are followers of Dave’s and you fail to acknowledge another persons observations and because I dont agree and Im stating a factual viewpoint you feel the need to bite back.Jules the fact that you condone that a guy can use a false story to get you to open up disappoints me.Honestly if a stranger walks up to you Jules and shows you his phone and asks your opinion your not suspicious.
Anyway I have said my peace and this is my last post so you guys get the last word.
Take Care
Sorry, I don’t mean to harp on the fake boob comments since this blog isn’t about fake breasts, but I just have to make a point.
I am a guy and I just have to say that guys absolutely CAN NOT comment on fake breasts. If a guy walks up to a girl and says “I was just standing over there in the corner and I was staring at your chest, and I just have to say, nice breasts!”. I’m not only going to come off sounding like a pig or something that just crawled out of a sewer, but I’ll sound like even more of an ass if they’re not fake. (Since by the way, 99% of men can not pick up whether breasts are real or not where as woman can. That’s a fact.) There is no way a man can word it without sounding like a creep! Women on the other hand can get away with it without getting smacking into the stone age. That’s just one mans opinion
Hey CPR – Let me give you a little distinction on this …
You’re right – if you walked up to strangers on the street (ie, women you don’t know) and compliment them on their breast implant, then YES I’m sure 99.9% of them will think you’re a creep no matter how you phrase it.
I think the difference is when you give similar compliments to a woman you know or are dating – someone you know well enough to have actually seen them (unclothed)
If you compliment a woman when you have that dynamic with her, I’d bet you would have better results
haha, Jules, I was just going to write that
It’s a bit funny that breasts looking like they’re fixed is a compliment to some.. whereas many guys say that real breasts are what they love! Shouldn’t that be a compliment?
Ah, we can go on forever and ever about boobs.. I’m quitting it here!
Have a nice weekend all you unknown people behind your computers..
Blazn2go –
Once again all I’m hearing is excuses. That text opener is just one example of an opener – and if you don’t like that one opener … DON’T USE IT! It’s that simple.
I don’t teach men to lie to women, or to be disrespectful or fake with women – ever. You are trying to find something to hold onto so that you don’t have to admit you’re not open to learning this stuff.
Plus, if you really follow my blogs and articles as you say (and have tried my techniques for a month), then you would know that I hate bars. I only created that text opener for men who feel the need to go to bars to meet women.
I am all about being real and meeting women day to day in spots you go all the time (like coffee houses, clothing stores, video stores, grocery stores, gyms etc etc etc). I am all about connecting with women by being observant, listening to what they have to say, and learning how to successfully carry on conversations with them.
To be able to do this does not depend on where you live or what kind of women you’re running into … it is all a function of developing core inner confidence and learning how women are wired.
To be able to do this, Blazn2go, you need to drop your ego, lose your excuses and be willing to go deep in making changes inside yourself. There is no question that what I teach works. There is no question that ANY guy can learn what I teach. It is all a matter of whether someone is willing to commit to the process and is open to making this kind of a life change.
Now you’re saying that was your last post. You still will not take my challenge. How did you ever become successful backing down from a challenge and running away?
Yea true, I was looking at it from the stand point of not really knowing the woman. I can understand it in an intimate prospective. I should have been more specific, but I meant to quote you when you said “I can tell you that none of them mind being asked — and in fact are quite proud of them and … for lack of a better term … are happy to have the good work they had “acknowledged””. I took it as seeing her at a party or standing next to her in line and saying “hey are those real? They’re terrific! I’ve been staring at them all night, in fact I’m still staring at them right now as we speak!” It’s sort of thin ice because you better hope and pray that they are in fact fake when you do commpliment or ask if they are real, otherwise the man is in for a world of hurt. It’s touchy for some woman; if you’ll pardon the expression “touchy”
Hi, Blazn2go.
I do think that SouCal is tough for meeting women especially when you’re not from around here. I’m from Chicago myself and found the same, as did my brother. I chalk it up to the more transient nature of the residents and the automobile culture that we have here, but fact is, we’re stuck with it. There are plenty of people who move here and are able to roll with it – they revel in it. They know something or have been blessed with something that some of us have not. I used to take it personally, but I figured that after years of grousing, the problem was “not in our stars but in ourselves.” And I don’t mean our celeb stars. I also used to think that it was my height (I’m 5′ 8.5″, a veritable shrimp in SouCal) but the fact is, my brother who is shorter and fat is a life force and has to fight off the women.
Given that you are successful, are raising kids and are from the south tells me that you have all kinds of stories you can tell. The trick may be in how you tell them. I remember how my mother would tell stories to her friends and to strangers and it would embarras the hell out of me. What she told me all those years ago is that people like to hear stories. So think about Dave’s mantra about being engagine and being observant.
Yes, you do bring up the fact that Dave used the phone text example to get girls to talk and there may have been an element of dishonesty to it. But I content that that is the only instance of dishonesty that I’ve encountered in his products and blogs.
Anyhoo, I’m 49 and went about the whole male/female rituals the wrong way since I was a todler. It’s not too late to change your outlook. It took a surprising divorce and all kinds of frustration for me to change my outlook.
-Steve
CPR – I think the scenario you’re describing would totally depend on the woman and the circumstances — and there’s no way to give you a blanket answer on that …
Speaking for myself and my friends, there is just a certain “vibe” from some guys that screams “creep” or “PUA” or whatever you would call it when you know you’re about to get dished a “line” or a “routine” which would make that comment you mentioned very likely result in a drink being thrown in your face.
There are other guys with a different “vibe” – hard to describe but it’s “confident not creepy” (sorry, I know that’s vague) where I think something like that in certain situations could be said and taken as a compliment.
So I’m sure that’s clear as mud … but it’s the best I can do
wow, this blog is reeeeally taking off. Thanks to all for the responses, especially for the fake boobs question (and sorry for changing the subject!).
And now it’s almost time for our BB Team to Redeem itself in Beijing:-)
Jules, wow thank you… Now I’m even more confused! I think I’ll just go ahead and drink my dinner tonight and reread what you posted and hopfully then it will make more sense… No but seriously, I get what you’re saying and it makes sense. It depends on the mans vibe or energy. If I walked up to you and/or your friends, it would be alright because I would be “confident not creepy” and I present it in an appropriate way, but if some guy with a “creep vibe” walked up, he would be wearing a drink on his face by the time he walks away because he probably said something like “nice boob job”. Am in the ballpark? I like how this blog went from Mystery and his “PUA” to a round table fake breast debate and how not to get slapped when commentating on a woman’s chest. That’s just great
Lol, CPR I totally understand your confusion
but why would you ask an unknown woman about her chest? Out of curiosity?
Jules and Bertie I have a question for you (not about fake boobs in particular but about body image and self confidence) as I feel the fake boob issue is covered (?): this may sound corny and very clichè, but my confidence which I’ve gained through internal personal changes and self awareness seems to be ignored by too many women (they think it’s all about the external things).. also by some of my friends.. I used to be too skinny in junior high school. I was often made fun of, because it was something I myself was not proud of, I didn’t have that curvy body I saw all over television etc.. over the years my style in clothing has become more unique and people seem to love it.. the way I wear myself, so to speak.. and like I said I’ve come to love my skinny body, though it has become more curvy since puberty hit me.. today I experience that girls seem to think it is because I have changed and refined my outer looks that I get more attention! It is because of the way I look at myself that makes a difference.. How can I project that message? It’s not about what I wear etc.. not to me atleast. I feel so bad for those younger girls that get the wrong messages
Have any of you kids? Any input?
CPR – Didn’t mean to confuse ya
But I think the stranger situation is too broad to give you a for-sure answer … I’d never have that be your opening comment to any woman – once you’re talking to her then use your judgment 
JustMe: Sorry – no kids
I’m not sure I know what you’re asking otherwise – how to get your friends to feel about their bodies the way you do?
hmmm, i think i confused myself a bit! been reading too much stream of consciousness lately =S
nah, i was thinking of girls in general, i have friends with younger sisters and plenty of neighbours who have youngsters.. whom i talk to on a regular basis.. (and my fuuuuture kids
) and yes, my friends too..
even those who are older than me! i feel as if by taking care of looks and at the same time saying that it doesn’t matter confuse people..did that make any sense?
There is a lot of stereotyping and generalizing going on on this page.
I think there is a great variety of PUA approaches. One end would have the old mystery with his indirect game and the other might have Wygant with his natural game. There is a lot in between.
In the PU community Wygant is seen as a PUA. He has been interviewed by David D, Style and Mehow. He is all over the pick up market.
As they say in marketing “differentiate or die” Wygant is positioning himself against the mainstream but that is getting harder. The trend is toward being yourself and natural game now. You could take his posts and put anyone of several famous PUAs names on them and people would believe the PUAs wrote them.
I think the pro PUAs should keep doing whatever brings in the bucks for them whether PickUp2.0, transformation, natural game, being yourself with no gurus, being authentic….
Good luck to them all in making a living doing what they love.
JustMe – Haha, I would never walk up to a random girl and comment on her chest or any girl for that matter, that was my whole point. I was saying it was a bad idea to do period. I was using that as an example to see if I was understanding what Jules was saying.
.
Just so we’re clear, I’m not wanting to use that as an opener… I have just a little more class than that
I do understand what you were trying to say though Jules.
I’m coming wayyyyyy late to this post… but man what a long trail of comments!
The PUA Community does have a lot of different factions nowadays. I have met a lot of the different guys in that Community and “Natural Game” is the closest to what David teaches.
As David said, there’s a little bit of everything for everyone in that Community but some advice is better than others. Using tricks only get you so far… and works best if all you care about is getting laid.
If you want something deeper and more meaningful, nothing beats learning how to be confident in being yourself. Yes… I did say BEING yourself.
What a lot of PUAs like to argue is that being yourself doesn’t work. Well it doesn’t work b/c they assume that being yourself is being the you that is now.
Being yourself is not being the you that is now. Being yourself is finding and defining your true core identity and acting genuinely and authentically to it. When you do that, you can attract anyone.
Now, I believe Scott or Jeff (I don’t remember which one) said he had success using the techniques from the PUA Community. I’ll agree with him that a lot of techniques do work… but they get success in spite of the techniques.
The guys who get success by using the techniques they learned from the PUA Community actually learn to express themselves better, in a more confident ways. It’s not the technique that works, it’s THEM. They learned to carry themselves and project who they are in more attractive ways.
Most of pickup that are based on scripts or other clever manipulation are just sales tactics revamped and re-engineered to fit the “dating” scene to get the “close”.
Awesome post cuntslayer.The bottom line here is how all of these guys brand themselves to make money PERIOD.Im not mad at you Dave hate the game not the player.
Balzn
I nor you would ever do anything that we can not make a living.
But the bottom line is you still refuse to take me up on my offer.
I am here to help you and each week that passes by is another week you can change what is going on in your life.
You were given a money back promise and an hour of free coaching if it did not work.
In order to be a success in anything you need to take chances.
You know that….I know that.
You are the type of man that i change on a daily basis!!
What are you waiting for………….
Blazn2go,
You are 47? you are not old and you CAN get plenty of success in SoCal.
You haven’t gotten as much success in CA as in other states? Great! You can now recognize that each environment has its own subtle cultural differences. It’s up to you to figure out what works for you and what doesn’t.
You meet women who have a “I think I’m a goddess” mentality. I have to wonder where you meet them. But more importantly, I have to wonder what kind of qualities you project first when you meet women. If you always project your success onto others, they will try to project how great they are back to you.
You are right… it all comes down to you being very comfortable in yourself and believing in yourself. That’s what David teaches. The question for you right now is: Do you really believe in yourself?
The Mastery Series can help you get there but you have to want it… just like anything else.
Finally, if you really haven’t had ANY success in SoCal… maybe it’s you. What are you doing to adapt the “you” to the current environment you are in.
Speaking of adapting to one’s environment…
So lots of the things I like to do attract simple men…or rather singularly focused men. They know off roading, hunting, and fishing, but little else. Yeah, I love those things, but I love other stuff too. I have no idea what to do from here…Hanging out at the Cafe Corner today with son, Nick all I ran into were married cops, and a physician’s assistant who’s old enough to be my dad, and I already know him…. I’m so glad I’m going on vacation Saturday…