Did that phrase just grab you and make you want to jump out of your seat and throw the computer to the floor?
I am not talking about adults and children in dating.
What I am about to list is three scenarios.
Tell me how you feel about each one.
67 year old man and 30 year old women.
45 year old women and 28 year old man.
51 year old man and 22 year old women.
53 year old man and 51 year old women.
52 year old man with a 22 year old women and his 25 year old daughter.
Now you are walking down the street and you see each of these couples holding hands.
How do you feel now?
What do you think about each scenario?
Is there a double standard?
This is a subject that should get this blog hot today so post away my friends and let me know what you think.
One last question.
I read it but I have to hold my tongue on this one. At least until other people have had a chance… Marina.
I really want to see what other people think about this. Throw your comments in people!
A movie
I am with you.
I did a video a few weeks ago that all men are 18.
I will repost that tomorrow.
I am going to keep my thoughts quiet till we hear from people.
THis one is going to get some heat
Well if you have a connection with someone you can’t hide it. If your happy that’s all that matters. Im 24 and going on a date tommrow with a 35 year old. Just get out there and have fun and connect with people dont worry bout age.
Thanks John
But how do feel about a 71 year old man with a 28 year old women?
Or if you saw a 73 year old woman making out with you?
Would you?
It seems to be all the rage these days. As a 40 yo women I know a handful of guys my age looking for that 25-28 year old hottie. But most of these guys were never married and are looking to have kids now, hoping that their money will be a big factor. I’d like to what these young girls think about this.
Its basically impossible for me to consider a guy more than five years younger than me. It could happen but I don’t go looking for it.
As far as age is concerned, age is not that big of a deal as long as the relationship is right for that particular couple. Personally, I tend to like women that are a little bit older than me as they are a little more mature than someone much younger than me, but it depends on the person as well. I probably wouldn’t want to date someone too much older or younger than me because it probably wouldn’t feel right; we’d probably be in different stages of life. Dating someone around five years older or maybe even younger would probably be okay for me, but again, it depends on the person. Therefore, my two cents to this debate is, “Where are you in your life, and where is he or she in her life?”
Dave
The norm is usually women go for older guys because women look for a mate who can take care of their children, and being older means usually better off in life as far as wealth and life experience. While guys look for a women who is younger because men are attracted, mainly, for child bearing purposes such as hip too waist ratio, and beauty. As for your scenarios, David, it seems like most of them were the ones such as Anna Nicole Smith, and J Howard Marshall, or Huge Heff dating one of his Playmates. In most of these situations it is looked down upon, and would make me feel somewhat uncomfortable if I saw them hold hands; but then again if they truly love each other and have chemistry (not saying either of those examples do) then more power to them.
If I saw a 45 year old woman with the 28 year old man, I’d probably cringe a little. We all make initial judgments about people, whether we like to admit it or not (she’s fat, he’s creepy, she looks like fun, he looks athletic, whatever).
First impressions are pretty powerful (as David teaches). Mine would be a little more judgmental, in this case.
Older guy with a younger woman, I’d probably think, “That guy got game”.
It IS a double standard. Society frowns on a lot of things, and my reaction would based on not seeing couples with large age difference very often.
That being said, if both of them are happy, then more power to them.
Sister
Very true and thanks for a womans opinon.
But look online and look at all the 50 year old men looking for 22 years olds.
Why dont you want a gut that much younger?
Are women more evolved emotionally and men are still only thinking with there dicks?
Dave
How old are you now if you dont mind me asking?
I love the attitude that you have it is being real and also you seem to be more about connections than only the physical
will
Why would you not say that the woman has game?
That double standard is wrong.
She might have game and might deserve some young guy as well.
Think about that a bit
Keegan
such as hip too waist ratio, and beauty
never heard that before?
why do men deserve that and women have to settle for old man balls touching the floor?
i am not taking sides but dont you think there is something wrong here with this formula?
ahh you are a gentleman Mike,
Ladies first,
Well it all depends on what kind of connection you are looking for..I am 40 my husband was 61.I meet him when I was 24 he was 45. Normally I have preferred older men, men in their early 40’s are a pain in the ass, identity crisis of major proportions. This was before Mike never thought I would be into baby sitting.
I really come down to the person, whether it’s a 71 years old woman with a 28 years old hottie…Gee why not if they both agree on why. Just one more courtesy fuck before I die she is begging. Besides I have heard that they are great at BJ’s LOL At that age any sex would be great sex, but with the men/woman ration I don’t know how that is going to work out.
My dad at 72 dates a 49 years old, at that age I don’t mind the difference. When I was 14 he dated a 19 years old, a little odd back then I have to admit. Credit to my dad he really looks better than the majority of 55 years old.
Sister if a 40 years old man is looking for a family it makes sense with a 26-28, beside even at 40 he is most likely still not more mature than the 28 years old.
But as much as I am fine with age differences when you hear 40+ dating again and they find someone their age it seems more genuine.
Would I mind getting my hands on a 23 years old no no no, only for fun though…I do think with major age difference you should not have a serious relationship if you know the other might want to have a kid and you know you are too old. You hear it often from men, but when we meet she said she would not have kids as if that is an excuse. At some point most women get this internal clock ticking very hard. Don’t mess with younger unless you at some point is ready to have kids. Don’t take that experience from another person.
David and Mike chickens…
50 something man and young 20’s woman brings Pierre & Margaret Trudeau to mind!
When I see any of these couples, the age definately raises an eyebrow because it is going against the norm. Of course I’m thinking immediately- money? how did they meet? affair? All of these things.
At the same time, however, it does not neccessarily reflect their overall level of contentness. You can see a happy couple wherever you go.
When I see these couples- if they appear happy- I think hey, good for them!
Men are physical and I don’t know why mother nature made women age “faster” than men. Men’s proper dating age is 1/2*(mans age) + 7 = womans age…
67 year old man and 30 year old women is gross but if he’s rich and famous then thats ok? right…
I think there absolutely is a perception gap between the older man dating younger woman dynamic and the older woman dating younger man dynamic.
While I think it’s not as extreme as it was in years past, I think the former is perceived as either no big deal or man wanting trophy wife….while the latter is almost always viewed as desperate older woman trying to cling to her youth or desperate young guy with “MILF” complex…
For me personally, I have dated older and younger … but where I draw the “creepy” line is dating anyone old enough to be my Dad OR young enough to be my child…
sorry and i know its ‘politically incorrect’ but men CAN date much younger woman and it’s fine. women dating much younger men just makes them pathetic.
Demi Moore Go Girl we need more of that kind of women..
David,
When you say 80 year old man with 20 year old woman all I can picture is Anna Nicole Smith with that Marshall guy –
And if here was some 80 year old billionaire broad who could get a 20 year old boy-toy, I would say the same thing about it:
You get what you pay for ….
Jerry
What do you think of people who pay for this?
Arent you saying that these people are really buying sex?
A hooker might be cheaper
Marina
How do you really feel about this?
Todd
sorry and i know its ‘politically incorrect’ but men CAN date much younger woman and it’s fine. women dating much younger men just makes them pathetic.
Wow todd that is a moutful.
so men are not pathetic when they are dating a young woman who is just using them for money?
or the man who flies to asia and gets a a child bride.
that is cool?
tell us more
I am a 40-something woman who has recently (but not because I was looking for it) dated a few men in their 20s. None of them had ever dated an “older” woman before.
They commented to me how much better the sex is (by a LOT) than the girls they were dating in their 20s. So while all those older men are looking for arm candy – the smart men (younger and older) are looking for what is more enjoyable when no one is watching
MSm
so if a guy is rich and famous its ok to date a young woman?
why is that ok?
why is that cool to you?
Personally, I don’t mind seeing couples that are up to 6 years apart. 8 years apart… I start to wonder if it’s right… then 10+ years apart… I cringe.
Because to me, when you have that big of a difference in age, I feel that it’s probably more of a functional relationship (he or she provides something each other need). Whereas… when it’s a bit closer in age, I feel it’s probably more of a loving relationship.
Of course, any relationship involves some form of value/power exchange… but I respect relationships more when I know it stems from loving each other for who they are… not for what they provide you.
Hey man, listen, I’m just being honest here — it’s what EVERYONE is thinking but doesn’t want to get ripped apart for saying.
And yes, I’m saying that an older man who can “afford” a beautiful young wife — no matter how he finds her — is not pathetic in terms of how he is viewed by society at large, whereas a woman would appear so.
You know it’s true but just don’t have the balls to admit that is the way it is, like it or not. It’s the truth
David
I don’t care about age, it depends on the person. An relationship is based on who someone makes me feel.
But Khiem what makes you think an age difference is not based on loving each other why would you assume it’s based on what it provides. Love when it’s pure has no age limit. Very harsh to say cringe..
Dave – a prostitute would be cheaper in the short run, but by finding ones they like, they can just get on the “automatic payment plan” and not have to keep finding new ones
Of course they are buying sex David. Look I want to believe in ‘true love’ as much as the next guy, but i find it hard to believe that too many 80somethings have too much in common with too many 20somethings to be able to form a true romantic soul connection.
Call me cynical, but I don’t see how these pairings can be viewed as anything other than a legal prostitution situation.
Jerry
I am with you my man.
I have seen this so many times.
A man who will not age gracefully and will not accept that he no longer can get the young women without the money.
Its like the old ballplayer that lost his swing.
No different.
MArina
When you see a 22 year old woman with a 50 year old man do you think love right away?
Tell me
Todd
Do you actually think a 23 year old hot women loves this 54 year old guy?
Its all about money my friend and lets not be illusional.
Tessa
I would much rather have sex with a real woman than a 22 year old anytime.
Sex is superior with older women.
My Intellectual reaction and my gut reaction are different. Intellectually I have no problem with it, as long as they’re both adults and act like adults (not kids in adult bodies). On a gut level if they look like they could be parent/child, it is kinda gross. I tend to think that people are more likely to be more compatible with people in similar age brackets and from similar SES backgrounds, but more likely doesn’t mean “will get along.
Legally these couples are doing nothing wrong.
It would have to be a case by case basis– does the significantly older person have a history of dating significantly younger people? If yes, is there some kind of developmental issue in that older person, or is it coincidentally a series of exceptional young people? Are you in the same phase of the life cycle? Is the significantly younger person looking for a care taker? are they more mature than their peers, your peers? (if you don’t both be in the relationship as adults, you can’t have a genuinely intimate relationship)
I get totally creeped out whenever my dad is interested in dating someone within 5-10 ish years of my age (he’s 70, I’m 31). So he can date anyone 41 and up!
When it’s not my parents, it only tends to creep me out when one party looks like they could be the parent of the other party. Except for Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglass, while he looks like he could be her date, they don’t seem to creep me out, maybe because I know enough about them to know they are both adults. So, like I said, case by case basis, which would involve talkign to every single party, which really, totally not worth my time and effort.
There have been older guys that I’ve dated, but when I saw myself standing next to them in a photo, I felt like I looked like my date’s daughter, that too creeps me out. When I was younger, after dating a few guys 10 ish years or so older, I made a rule that I wouldn’t date any guys that much older than I was who regularly dated girls my age at the time (18-24) because they usually had issues– immaturity, control, wanted to be a father figure (weird, already have a dad AND a step-dad thanks, and they’re cool guys). At 25 I started dating younger guys 6 mos – 6 years) and found them to be good guys, but fairly regularly only dated younger guys that preferred older women.
My current bf and longest relationship is 6 mos younger than I am.
David, I don’t mind telling you my age, but I don’t want to post that here. Check your e-mail.
I guess you can say that I am more into connections that just looks although I would be lying if I said that looks have nothing to do with it. For me, as long as her looks are on same plane as me, we’re good! Personality is a big deal with me, and from the little experience that I have, if two personalities are not compatible, it’s going to be a rocky relationship.
Dave
I’m going to give myself permission to blatantly judge and stereotype on this one. Forgive me ahead of time, if I offend you.
Out of all the proposed scenarios (which were way more three David =P), the 51 and 53, and maybe 45 and 28 seem ok to me. Everything else produced a knee jerk reaction of seriously doubting the character and upbringing of both people in the relationship.
For example, early childhood trauma or abuse can often wire a woman to go for a much older men. A classic situation is the father leaving the family when the woman is less than 10 years old. This abrupt departure and break up of a family can lead to a void in that woman’s life. A void she will try to unconsciously to fill.
In no way am I trying to “blame” women though. I’m also questioning the motives of a man who is dating a woman half his age. How much in common can they possibly have? They are at different points in their life. Where are the commonalities? Are the man’s motives honest or manipulative? My gut says it’s more manipulative (very likely on a subconscious level).
Another cliche comes to mind. I’ve met some women (20-25) all claiming to be “oh so very very mature for their age” to justify dating much older men. When they weren’t that mature. At most they may have been 3 years more mature than their real age, but that in no way covered the huge gap of 20+ years. Everybody seems way to eager to label themselves as mature beyond their years (when in reality they are not … myself included). How mature can a 51 year old man be if he is in a SERIOUS relationship with a 22 year child?
Most of the proposed scenarios appear very questionable. They smell as if their relationship had an ulterior motive that wasn’t based on deeply connecting with each other.
DAve
send me an email
Lexi
Lets talk more about the developmental issues.
What that really means.
As for the photo you were right. I have coached clients on that exact issue that way.
It looks really creepy to me as well.
Your dad wants to be sean connery?
David
the core of who I am have no judgements to anyone as to age difference as long as they both are in for the same reason. Maturity has nothing to do with age. Start calling people name prostitute/creeps and whatever to me is really a sign of immaturity. Can’t see why I should care if both are genuinely happy. It’s not up to me to be the judge of someone else happiness. I don’t care about if you are a lesbian/gay each to their own.
Vlad
Great post and love that phrase.
I am so mature for my age.
This is the same scenario as people use on the internet on match.
I look young for my age.
Who would really say i look old for my age.
Blatent honest posts are what i like to read thanks.
Marina
Np judgements all of us have an opinion on this and that is what makes it great.
David
As a man, I’m going to generalize based off of my intuition and experiences. For men dating extremely younger or older aged woman, it all depends on which head they’re thinking with. If an older man wants to date the young 20 year old, he’s thinking with the one eyed cyclops head : ) If he’s open and wants to date older women or if age doesn’t matter to him, then he’s thinking with the other head. Just my initial thoughts here.
i’m stuck on that one on why it’s ok, money i guess. 67 v 30 yr old woman. some people tend over look things because of $$$$$ but not all people.
Totally agree that is the only fun way to debate things, boring if we all agreed.
Broadly speaking, men are attracted to youth, and women are attracted to maturity. Is it that surprising that guys date younger women and women date older guys?
My initial impression of a 45 year old woman dating a 25 year old guy would be that the guy could do better. Then again, there are plenty of guys who are into “cougars”, and I’ve certainly hooked up with older women myself. Older women are generally more comfortable with their sexuality, more experienced in the bedroom, and less flaky than younger women. There’s a lot less “game” playing, which can be appealing. The women for their part are financially secure and looking for some hot sex with a younger guy. Nothing wrong with that.
My initial impression of a 67 year old guy dating a 20 something would be that the woman is probably using him for his money. Then again, I don’t know many 67 year olds, and have never met any in that sort of relationship, so I don’t have any first hand experience to back my feelings up.
A 50 year old guy dating a 25 year old woman is perfectly fine in my book. Just look at the “10 most sexiest guys/girls” type articles in any tabloid magazine. The sexiest women tend to be in their 20s, and the sexiest guys are usually much older. It only makes sense for them to hook up with each other.
And to answer your original question, “do you want to date a child?”, a 30 year old woman is hardly a child, regardless of the age difference between her and her partner.
Mike are you taking notes for your big finale here…
msm
a lot of people are all about the money
casual
tabloid magazines.
its called publicity.
dont ever believe anything in tabloids.
just adjust it
i agree men tend to think with there dicks too much
Marina,
I don’t assume that you can’t find love with a huge age gap… however the reality is, that’s not as common.
I feel that love is about aligning yourself with your partner and when you have 1 or 2 or even 3 decades difference in age, how can you truly understand each other? How can you really understand each other’s priorities and values?
I’m not saying it’s impossible but it’s just not as common.
How do you feel now?
What do you think about each scenario?
Is there a double standard?
David,
I am going to answer all of these questions in one fell swoop.
Age is a human construct and ultimately means nothing. Somebody came along one day and said you are THIS age because you’ve been alive for this many days, and you are this age because of the same reason. I think that, as humans, we naturally try to simplify to make them easier to understand, but simplifying leads to stereotyping, and that can be very dangerous.
Furthermore, to judge a situation between two humans just on the basis of having seen them walk down a street is stupid. There is TON of context that needs to be taken into consideration before ANY judgment is made.
The real question here is, DO these people really care for each other? And if the answer is yes, then pardon my french but, who gives a fuck? GOOD FOR THEM!
So, how do I feel? I don’t think anything of it, I truly hope that these people are happy, and that goes for EACH scenario.
Now, is there a double standard? Yes, I would imagine so. But if these people are happy with themselves then society be damned.
An amusing thought crossed my mind as I was reading over the replies about the old and young celebrities in the tabloid magazines.
If we had a magic wand and could make those celebrities be present in the moment for let’s say a week. Get them to the point where all the bs and past is dissolved. Would they still choose to be together?
@david
Tabloids might not be the credible source of information, but tens of millions of them are sold every year. Someone must be buying them.
Johnny Depp, Viggo Mortensen, Hugh Jackman, George Clooney. All 40+.
Women tend to be attracted to older guys, and older guys tend to be attracted to younger women. Don’t judge, just accept the way things are.
Wow, I step away from the computer for a few hours and I get to come back and see all these great posts.
The main theme from everyone is that we can’t judge because we are not either person in any of the given scenarios, but we all express that we would hope they are happy together. If they are, then more power to them.
And only a Candian would go the Trudeau route on this topic. Bravo Greg! The same sentimentality could easily be applied to any French visitors and your current president. He even married her while in office.
Who knows what forces bring two people together and what can drive them apart. We all learn from our experiences and sharing them with others is the oldest and still most trusted method of passing on information amongst ourselves. They have computers that can perform a gigaflop worth of calculations in a minute (I just realized I have no idea what a gigaflop is??) but in comparison to the amount of information that passes through even the quietest of modern minds dwarfs that palsy amount. We can’t tell what other people are thinking because we have too many thoughts to work on ourselves.
Here’s a follow up question and some of the posters have described people that it works for, but who else kows of a successful May-December romance, man or woman, and wants to let us know how it works? Or are well basing our opinions on the influences of popular culture and preconcieved notions like the influence of money and power over deciding who you want to connect with on a deeper level?
I have a few examples. I have one friend who is twelve years older than his wife. He has a child from a previous marriage and all though I never figured out how they met, his new wife and him are one of the happiest couples I know. She helps raise the kid, but knows she is not his mother, and the share so many common interests, I have never once thought about the age difference between them.
On the opposite side of the coin I know people who are married to women who are quite younger than them and it shows in every single action they take together, whether arguing about what to have for dinner, to deciding what to watch on TV. The elder always behaves like a parent, and the younger always behaves like a spoiled kid trying to figure out how to get what she wants out of “daddy”.
Even my brother married a girl nine years younger than him and there marriage is based around a sharing some very solid core belifes and he would kick my ass for sharing this detail about his relationship, often he observes how young she really is and it bothers him. But he knows that she will grow into the mature woman that he sees and he is helping her through her formative years by being devoted and exceptional to her and her needs.
Mike
>> Women tend to be attracted to older guys, and older guys tend to be attracted to younger women. Don’t judge, just accept the way things are.
Or is it the other way around. Those relationships exist because we DO judge, and can NOT accept things as they are.
Khiem,
When you just get the other person and live in the now, age does not matter. Priorities and values are no different whatever age you are. We all just want to be with some one that makes you fell good and you are a great team together. It really depends on how your mind is, some minds are just ageless, they are in a constant grow. I for one see no reason why I have to act a certain way because of my age, I am evolving constantly and never set in one certain way of thinking. Sometimes I will Old for my age and sometimes I will be young.
When I first saw the headline for this and read the 1st paragraph, I immediately thought of Michael Douglas & CZJ. As one actor put it during the Oscars the year they got married,
“Michael Douglas should win the Oscar for Best Score.”
I cannot and will not pass judgment on older men with younger women, but yet, it’s a legitimate question to wonder if the much younger woman is with the guy simply for his $$. But then it can go the other way too. If you know a woman who’s a senior citizen dating a much much younger guy, same thing.
There was something on TV in the last week about an experiment some TV show did where they had this woman in her 70s introduce this 20 something guy who looked like a GQ model to her friends at a restaurant. Her friends didn’t know the guy was just an actor hired for this social experiment. All her friends were surprised to put it mildly but did ther best to be polite to him. The woman then excused herself to the restroom. While she was away the much younger guy told her friends they were invited to the wedding which was the following week. They then asked him why so soon and he said that because he was from Ireland and wanted to get a green card, he only had 10 days left before having to leave the country. That was the next bombshell he dropped and their jaws dropped about a foot. The woman’s closest friend later said she was compelled to tell her and advise her against the whole thing. And the woman then told her friends what was really going on. The TV reporter then said they will likely do another experiment like that between an older man & much younger woman soon.
To me, fwiw, coming from someone who really doesn’t know Jack(so take all my opinions with a grain of salt)it’s acceptable if the love is REAL. But both people need to know it’s real and that they are not simply using the other person or being used. I’m convinced ANS was just using the old geezer to get at his $900 million . Might sound cynical, but when you consider she was maybe 26-28 and he was pushing 90 and filthy rich, I mean, come on!
I was browsing the online personals awhile back and saw this one 25 yr old girl’s page and looked at her profile. She’s beautiful and claims that she loves to cook. My kind of woman! lol She said she was looking for men who are 50 or older because she said she’s so tired of the games from younger men & boys. She wants a more mature man and claims to want the 50+ age bracket. That’s great if what she said is true. I would hope she’s is neither a gold digger or a black widow and/gold digger. I read a news report from Yahoo news just a couple days ago about a 46(?) yr old woman who had just married some 73 yr old rich guy. She was being investigated because there are allegations she had made her new husband keep swimming in their pool and would not let him out of the pool until he finally collapsed and died of a heart attack from over-exertion. Be careful who you marry folks.
But having said all that, I’m still 18 at heart. Can’t help it.
There’s definetley a double standard here. Even though I know it shouldn’t matter, a part of me screamed “COUGAR!” at the thought of the 45 year old women and 28 year old man.
A reader just sent me this.
You wonder why men go for young.
All women are taught to not look there age starting at a young age.
http://sharing.theflip.com/session/76ef6d501b3543a9f5db4e06324ca9c9/video/3188651
Tony
Have you seen my video that all men are still 18? I will post it tomorrow
Casual
Do you read tabloids?
Are you more concerned with celebs than your own life?
Celebs have nothing to do with reality.
That is what I am trying to point out by my post/
Mike
How dare you step away and miss all the fun
tony
don’t know your age but if you say you are still 18 at heart can’t help it, maybe trying to approach girls your own age would help with your approach issues. I am not being sarcastic or anything, but maybe that would be something to think about.
Thank you soul, exactly my point just better said
David just saw what Kristen sent, can’t see the problem if they are 16, if they can drive when 15 and has the maturity for that what is the problem with them wearing high heels. Girls are maturing younger now. 16 years old is not what they have been. It’s all individual…we can’t put these boxes on what to do or not to do at certain ages. They don’t really have that young little look over them.
Marina
But they are young and when did we lose our innocence
David
Over here kids are given the responsibility to drive a car at that age..that is already a huge responsibility, if you can drive a car..you really have to see case to case. I am not saying all 16 years old should dress that way. When I was 11 I was fully developed, friends of mine were much older before they were developed and in that age I did not see as a big deal. I did not myself wear high heels I was still a tomboy at heart.
If you really have to talk about loosing innocence then look at those sickening beauty contest where 6 years old are dressed as 18.
It may be odd for a younger man to be dating a “cougar”, but depends what he is looking for in the relationship. As Lexi was stating, these couples are not doing anything that is legally wrong, but something that is not the social norm. I think some cougars are great.
David go to a local department store and see what they try to sell 7 years old, that is sick and not age suitable especially bathing suits I had to go to 3 different places to find something I would put my 7 years old in, but at 16 it’s a whole different story.
@David
I’m not saying we should care about celebrities. I certainly don’t.
But in many ways, celebrities & movies are our idealizations of everyday life. By examining them, we can learn about ourselves and our desires, e.g. men find young women sexy, and women the opposite (to a degree).
David. I’m not one to suggest changes to other people’s businesses, but I think you might be due for a server upgrade. I just wrote one of my longest posts ever and it got lost because I couldn’t connect to your site when I hit submit comment. I think that usually means that there is too much traffic on the site and that should be easy to fix.
Sigh.
It was a great post too. I talked about how the movie Benjamin Button is the best picture of the last ten years and how it will lose to Slumdog Millionaire. But more importantly, I think Benjamin Button, has a huge message to it, that applies to this blog. But now it is lost in cyberspace, never to return.
The summary, when Cate and Brad meet in the beginning, one is old, the other is young, yet they both feel young and alive. They connect over the idea that they are both always going to be young at heart, no matter their appearance.
In the middle, they are at their happiest because at that time they both know who they are and that also happens to be when their ages match.
In the end, one is young again in body and one is old. But one is losing grip of all he remembers and all that he cares about while the other is able to reflect and collect a lifetime’s worth of experiences to deal with the loss of her best friend.
What’s the difference between the two? Besides the conceit of aging backward, the movie tells a powerful story about humans and how we age and how we deal with age. Some of us want to be young forever because that feels like the best time of our lives. Others love the middle part and want to stay there forever. And still others enjoy facing the end with dignity and respect for all they have done before they got to the end. The best part of this movie is that man or woman, Cate or Brad, we can choose to be whoever we want out of all six parts that they play.
Mike
Marina,
Girls ARE NOT maturing any younger. That would require an evolutionary change which takes hundreds to thousands of years or an act of interfernce by God. What is happening is that like David said earlier, they are being forced to mature faster by the commercially dominate themes of our times. When they go out at 16 in tube tops and short shorts, it is because of peer pressure and not because they are comfortable with who they are. You can’t even try an tell me that those decisions are a sign of maturity. As the blanket of tech grows, so do the signs for being an acceptable and mature adult, something which happens at best, at a natural rate. Are your kids old enough to know that blowjobs are considered sexual conduct for mature consenting adults and not something that everyone else does to fit in? Or sending naked picutres of themselves over the internet? That is peer pressure and not maturity. That is more like forced maturity which is backwards and against natural laws.
Mike
I have a friend who likes to say old enough to bleed, old enough for me. Does this count as being mature? Or is it your body telling you, you are old enough to breed which came about that young as a means of survival for the whole species and not the well-being of one 13 old girl. Physical maturity is not the same as emotional maturity.
Mike
I agree with you and they want to look older but they are still young immature naive girls,
Casual
There is nothing we can learn from celebs nothing.
My audience your audience are regular people.
You can learn more in a wal mart on a saturday than you will ever learn from a celeb.
They mean nothing in the day to day life of anyone…but people are so damm bored with their lives that they create fantasy realities.
Mike
I did not grew up here, and where I am from a county where at 16 majority of girls already had sex, with sex education in school as a natural thing. We would even go to clinics as a class where we were told how to put a condom on and tried it ourselves on a banana, not a biggie for me. There it’s not forced nor major pressure at 16.
What the girls in that video are wearing is not my style at any age. A girl at that age can be very comfortable wearing short shorts. I have meet many over here that were, and they were very and strong.
How do you feel now?
What do you think about each scenario?
Is there a double standard?
David,
I am going to answer all of these questions in one fell swoop.
Age is a human construct and ultimately means nothing. Somebody came along one day and said you are THIS age because you’ve been alive for this many days, and you are this age because of the same reason. I think that, as humans, we naturally try to simplify to make them easier to understand, but simplifying leads to stereotyping, and that can be very dangerous.
Furthermore, to judge a situation between two humans just on the basis of having seen them walk down a street is stupid. There is TON of context that needs to be taken into consideration before ANY judgment is made.
The real question here is, DO these people really care for each other? And if the answer is yes, then pardon my french but, who gives a fuck? GOOD FOR THEM!
So, how do I feel? I don’t think anything of it, I truly hope that these people are happy, and that goes for EACH scenario.
Now, is there a double standard? Yes, I would imagine so. But if these people are happy with themselves then society be damned.
And SOUL,
How passionate you sound in your suggestion that time is a construct of man and how ridiculous your statement sounds to me. Time is the one thing MAN can never change. Einstein was just getting around to saying that when he kicked the bucket before he finished up his universal theory.
Aging is a product of time and not how we change the thought of time in our minds. It is inevitable and necessary as much as breathing and water is to our survival. What is not part of the natural laws, is how we create structures out of our memories using time as tool to make it happen. I believe, and this is comepltely unsupported by knowledge, is that we are in a time when it is becomming obvious to us how important time is. We all know we only have so much of it and we are not given the clues to how much that might be. From there, two things are constructed, a. our need to understand this paradox, or b. our refusal to admit its existence. From those to ideas, all of man’s peril and plunder in this world can be traced back to this type of thought. Societies are built from this. Famileis too. EVerything right down to the personal need to feel liberated from this thought by declaring that time and aging is something we all have to disregard as being a barrier to us.
It is the only barrier that actually exists.
Mike
Have you ever heard the term one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave. That is when a real young girl marries someone who is old enough to be his daughter. Some people say well they married them for their money. We all have our different outlooks on kids. But I don’t want to be with a man that can not provide for himself and I feel like I have to raise him. Did his mother and dad do that for me. There are people who are children in adults bodies.
Marina,
I’m from that generation too. But I can guarantee you that it doesn’t always turn out the way you think it will. For some kids, me included, it caused more confusion and damage to be part of system that rewarded sexual experience as a sign of maturity. If it is happening at 16, then it is not happening as a sign you are maturing, it is a sign that you are sixteen and horny and that is the marketing difference because people who target ads to kids aren’t allowed to say, have sex and drink a Pepsi. They have to say, look sexy, drink Pepsi because it is sexy, and then maybe people will try and treat you as a mature adult.
There is a problem there.
For those of you who don’t believe in the power of celebrity… Just look at Chris Brown. That guy’s career is over and should be for being such a wimp that he had to hit his girlfriend. I learned not to listen to Chris Brown’s music.
Oh I have one for you:
My last husband was seven years younger than I was and my first husband was eight years older than I my second husband was one year younger than I. Forget that marriage bum. My daughter is married to someone who is fourteen years older than her. When her dad found out he had a cow. But he forgot he married someone who was eight years younger than he was.
It is not uncommon these days for women to make more $$ then men in their age group… That’s why you are seeing more older women with younger men.. If you are financially secure why wouldn’t you go for the hottest guy you can find… Open your minds people.. I routinely date guys 5-8 yrs younger than me. basically because I can… I don’t work my ass off at the gym for nothing…
Go on any dating web site and you will see countless Joe’s (avg looking at best) in their early 40’s never married looking for women significantly younger…. keep reading and you will also see that they still have roommates…Talk about pathetic?????
As for celebs… I bet you young guys wouldn’t kick Jennifer Anniston; Selma Hayek; or Halle Berry out of bed.. p.s. they are all over 40
David
Maybe this guy is going through his own change of life and wants to charge up his ego. You know metapause women go through menopause.
A Movie
You forgot about me me me me Marina’s back up.
OK one last one so I can listen to the teleconference
Have we forgotten that our ancestors married early in life I did my own family tree there were some who married in their young teens. Today in the States if someone even looks at someone who is younger than eighteen it is curtains for you.
David,
Yes I saw your video about “All men are 18″ the first time you posted it and commented on it then. I’m guilty as charged.
Kristen,
Did those girls give you their consent to be filmed or video’d and posted online? It might’ve been in your store, but did you get permission to upload it for the masses to see? And since they’re underage, did their parents give you permission?
Marina,
I have difficulty with women regardless of their age. Doesn’t matter what their age bracket is, I’m still tongue-tied. See what i said in the blog thread about Keeping the Conversation Going. I think it was in there where i was talking about it to MAC and Kheim. This mental block I have where my brain crashes, goes all blue screen on me.
A.Movie,
I’ve seen both Benjamin Button & Slumdog Millionaire and enjoyed them both. There’s a lot of truth in what you said in that post.
Tee,
I agree with you on Jen A, Salma and Halle. They’re all gorgeous and just turned 40 and their men are all outrageously lucky. I read that Salma just got married and she’s mega-hot whatever her age is. I remember the first time I saw her in Desperado several years ago. WOW!! And she’s still a major knockout today.
Personally I’m 48 and divorced, but I’m a very physically fit man. I love exercise and have good genes. So I cannot relate physically to most women in their 40’s. However, younger than 30, and their minds/emotions are all over the place. I guess I like 7 to 15 years younger than me, works fine.
Remember folks, women are as old as their age, men are as old as they feel!
This is indeed a hot issue that seems to trigger strong emotional responses in everyone. Even though I approve of it intellectually, I still have a negative gut reaction.
I can’t think of a more obvious example of jealousy being rationalized as righteous indignation.
For women, particularly more…mature women, it is an obnoxiously poignant reminder of their declining mate value; of the fact that men don’t find them as attractive as they used to, and all the fad diets, makeup and plastic surgery in the world can’t hold off aging forever.
For men, I think it’s jealousy in a much more obvious and straightforward way: how come HE gets to be with her and I don’t? Even worse, he’s not SUPPOSED to be able to attract someone like that–how dare he?
Of course, he must be a creep. Or having mid-life crisis. Or wanting a trophy wife, or cheap sex, or someone he can control.
Of course, she must be in it for the money. Obviously she must be a slut, or a prostitute. Or “psychologically damaged”.
Except for the last one, it’s exactly the same thing guys say about foreigners or guys from a different ethnic group who are “stealing” “their” women.
Ultimately, what I think needs to be said is: Yes, I understand the emotional reaction. It’s ok to feel it–it seems to be a normal human reflex. But allow yourself to feel it, and then get over it. And mind your own damn business. Chances are good that your relationships might even need more work than theirs anyway.
J Dude
I will soon be 49 years old this month. We are all still kids at heart. But there are some guys who don’t want to date their mother or their grandmother’s age. I care about someone who is my age but he is five weeks older than i. I am not going to consider myself old until i am in my eighties if i see that age.
Damn you David and this addictive blog… jk.
I can’t forget about you Sandra but it was something Marina said this time that got me going.
What is happening, (as always IMHO), is that America as an idea went forward with the idea of giving people freedom to live their life the way they see it. The problem is that a lot of “adults” didn’t necessarily fit in when they were young and in turn, went towards a need that is probably, on a biological level, not healthy for them and married, or corted someone young. We developed this Western attitude and I can see, as an adult who went through the shock of being raised North American, that it is doing harm to people of a younger age. Not everyone, mind you. Marina had a great point and it worked for her. Tee also said it well.
But the pressure from pop culture which does have a strong impact on any average child growing up now, is bent on selling the idea of sex – as in sex for pleasure of feeling confident – as being what is necessary for feeling good about yourself. In a world crammed with information being thrown at us, it is not the right message for everyone. There probably isn’t a right answer. I was an example of someone who didn’t survive his literal thrust into adulthood and spent YEARS depressed because I was convinced that I failed myself as a young adult.
I don’t know if this system breeds better self confidence, or is a modern answer for natural selection. (I aplogize for all the recent science refrences, I’m reading a really heavy science mag right now and it is having an effect). But I think there are people out there who see a better answer. There has to be a more natural path than going through high school competing ALL THE TIME and feeling shitty about yourself, then getting to college and getting absolutely shit-faced drunk and stupid all the time and having your dad order a college girls getting wild (when really a more “evolved” person wouldn’t even have the urge to bare all) video and sees his precious, the one he thought he brought up well flashing her “I don’t care, because I had sex ed class in high school and at least I learned enough to not catch a nasty VD” face for men to get visually aroused by.
Kind of seems like with so much in our grasp, there might be an amicable option admist all the accumulated knowledge of human history.
Hmmm… I smell a virgin in this Blog… won’t say his name, but the he would be first, if names were called alphabetically…
A Movie
Before I go to my Sims 2 game I was listening to the teleconference and it ended on my computer at 10 pm cst. Both of my parents are still together my mom married my dad when she was fifteen years old and my dad was was eighteen years old the following year they had my oldest brother before I was born he died of a heart attack in his sleep when he was an infant. My mother was seventeen years old and my dad was twenty when she had me. My youngest brother was born in 1963 and died in 1988 of a terminal illness if you look on my face book pics you will see a pic of him and I call it In Loving Memory of You. During my high school years I did not have any boyfriends but there was one in particular but all he wanted was a piece of ass. Then during my junior year in high school I was married to my first husband and we divorced.
Now to look back on it that is all past for I have been married four times and the best thing that ever came out of those marriages was my daughters and I gave my life to serve Lord Jesus. In life we are dealt a bad hand but life must go on. Look on it as a learning tool we only go through life once and we are the ones who have to answer for our own actions of the flesh in the long run.
J-Dude
who is he? my youngest brother died a virgin.
There was a reason behind that and why he did for what he had he did not want to pass it on to his children.
No it was not that he died of something that is a rare disease has anyone ever heard of Dr. Peter G. Wright at Vanderbilt he is the doctor of infectious diseases he started with my brother and ended with my brother.
One of the most common objections is “what could they possibly have in common”? Why is there this perception that having “things in common” is the most important thing for a romantic relationship? I have a lot in common with my parents, but I don’t want to date them! Maybe that’s not a good example…
I am a white American. I work out every day, am an atheist, and I hardly ever have a strong emotional reaction to anything. My last girlfriend was a Catholic Colombian, didn’t work out ever, and like Latin women are known for, spoke as if every event were a crisis. We had a very intimate and loving relationship.
It is nice to have a common outlook…some similarities are more important than others… But I don’t think similarities are necessarily the foundation of a good relationship. The differences between male and female are what sexual chemistry is all about. I want a lover, not a clone.
And I apologize for how arrogant this might sound, but it’s the reality I have to deal with: I have an abnormally high intellect. If being on the same level intellectually is a requirement for a relationship, I’m screwed. That would be just as hard to find in a 40 year old woman as in an 18 year old. Fortunately, a debate partner or a research collaborator is not what I’m looking for in a relationship.
My favorite thing to do with a girl is to hold her and cuddle for hours. And talk, and listen to her, and comfort her…to be someone she can feel safe to be herself with (however different that might be from me). That, for me, (and I think for most women) is more emotionally fulfilling and creates a stronger bond than any amount of discussing our shared views on politics or the nature of reality, or of playing video games or doing whatever hobby together.
Of course, I’m a pretty atypical person all-around, so I don’t think much of what is the case for me can be applied to men in general.
Mike our inhouse tortured soul
Just because a 16 years old is beginning to explore her sexuality/sensuality does not mean she is influence or presurred by peer or commercials. The minutes our homones change we naturally get the need. I think the safest way is to raise kids knowing all these feelings are normal and the consequenses they have. You can’t just say it’s wrong for all 16 years old. Coming from a country where sexuality and talking about it is not a taboo as it is here for the most. As I mentioned earlier I am all up in arms what clothes is being offered to the really young, that is horrible. If you guys has to get all worked up pick what is being offered to the very young age group. At 16 I for the most part think you are wrong.
Lee
You are what I call a well rounded romantic evolved man!!
I am like oyu i dont ever want to be at a loss for conversation with my lover.
I connect via my life experiences and my words.
A woman half my age may look hot but she cant turn me on with her soul…too young for me.
I need someone who i can relate to in everyway.
Great post!!
J Dude
What do virgins smell like?
J dude
Like you i do not want a woman whose mind is all over the place. I like a centered woman. In there 20s they are all over the map as i was at that age too!!
You have alot of responses here David, like you thought!, with an issue that’s culiminating into strong debate during this age & time.
Seems that more thought these days is being put into “does this fit my fantasy/dream” instead of wanting a life partner. I mean really, how can a 65 year old male or female date a 20-30 year old expecting them to spend the rest of their life together? That’s not going to happen, he/she will die earlier.
Is is just for sex? And/or eye-candy? If so that is short term thinking that will never evolve in to what I think most people want – a real, loving caring, til-the-day-I-die partner.
There are very few George Clooneys around, most aging men are more like George Castanza. And most aging women are like Rosie O’Donnell. Realistic expectations have been replaced by TV sitcom models!
Mike Sandra and Marina
Take it outside:)
I always enjoy when the 3 of you get into it!!!
A healthy debate is a good debate and I think all of you can learn a lot from each other,
Sister
I always get a lot of action back here when we heat up the front page.
So true but all the men who look like costanza want a super model and all the women who look like rosie are realistic and want a man who they can trust and love.
SO much deeper we can go into this.
J-Dude what is your real name anyway…
Watch out with those great genes of yours, dating girls who are ready to have kids in your desirable age group make you a perfect breeding material for girls.
You just can’t help yourself you have to come with these POA comments. Loves to steer it up.
David
Where do I take it outside? If I do that then my next door neighbors cows will hear me. lol
David
You are the one so caught up on age and brought it up here. Now what is the difference in age btw you and your girl friend.
Age got nothing to so with being able to stimulate each other mentally and emotionally.It’s all in the mind.
Marina
Not caught up on age. Just really exploring a topic that is long overdue and stirring it up as always.
As for my personal life that will remain private.
You know me….I am not someone to talk about my personal life at all. That is and will always be scared to me.
I am not someone to kiss and tell.
David
I was told this one time and it is true. Did you know that this website and everything you do is apart of you. Think about it you put yourself into it and this is apart of what you are thinking. It may not have anything to do with you and your gf but this blog is apart of all of us. We put the time and effort to answer your questions. It is like my computer I built it so it has apart of me in it. I designed it they way I wanted it. A car that you work on has apart of you in it. And speaking about your personal life is not for anyone to know for that is between you and your lady.
Careful Marina… POA comments or PUA comments? 2 different things!
My real name starts w a J. It’s a common name in both English & Spanish, but in English is spelled slighlty different.
David, young POA is always visually appealing… but the uncentered mind will show it’s ugly rear end. 4 yrs ago I came close to dating a 23 yr old… fortunately, she flaked out. Then she calls me back and said, “sorry I was drunk last night, that’s why I didn’t show up”. It gave me the hint to run away.
J Dude I use POA as Piss Off Artist, I was referring to you commenting on a virgin in here.
How exciting trying to figure out you name, it’s like brain exercise in the morning.
“How do you feel now?”
I feel great.
“What do you think about each scenario?”
I don’t. In all the scenario’s you mentioned the intent of any individual in the groups you mentioned can fall anywhere in a spectrum where the person is being subversively self serving or transparent and sincerely compassionate about the person they’re with. I would rather just acknowledge what I see free of any preconceived ideas that could cloud my vision. On a personal note I have a friend, Larry, who’s in his mid fifties and shows his age. His daughter is 23, and very attractive. Whenever they hang out she always holds his hand and leans into him when they walk. She’s been doing this since she was 6 and her dad is undoubtedly her best friend. However, Larry has pointed out to me time again the dirty looks he’s received from women and men near his age because they’re assuming something else.
“Is there a double standard?”
I’ll answer it this way, “Yes, there is a double standard and double standards exist in many forms.” I don’t agree with the double standards but unfortunately they exist.
Lee
I hope you were not referring to me being a God Fearing Person. I have only one thing to say each to their own beliefs. You do have a right to be upfront and honest. But if you think us women can not find a man think again. Years ago I was told this by a guy.
It is easier for a woman to find a man than a man is to find a woman. Now lets think this through today’s society if a man even looks at a woman the wrong way all she has to do is voice it and oops off to jail he goes. I don’t like that for I believe that when it comes to our court system each person should be tried accordingly. Even your male friends will tell you don’t fuck with a woman or she can fuck you up before a judge. I don’t believe in this. I do know the difference between a friendly pat on the shoulder and a come on baby lets get it on. But I am not the one to go and get the guy in trouble put hurt me and see what happens. I was also told this by the same guy all a woman has to do to satisfy her itch is get a vibrator and watch a porn tape and be satisfied. Putting yourself down is not the answer you may not be attracted to all women but some may think you are hot under the covers. It depends on the woman and how she sees herself. But one thing you men have in common you still think and act like a guy. I am thankful that you love women. But don’t give up for there is a woman at each corner just waiting to be picked up.
and I would like to welcome everyone to my own private AA meeting for the chronically underachieving low male sex drive.
I’m not ashamed of who I am and I am not a tortured soul anymore.
Now that it is out in the open, my only real concern left is that I worry that people won’t accept me for who I am if they know my sex secret and I sincerely have no clue about how to tell someone gracefully. I am trained by the business I want to be in to feel bad about what I haven’t achieved and that message still stands, no matter how much it was misinterpreted.
Since you all know, what is your advice, and keep in mind that I had to wait until I even felt remotely mature enough to be even able to talk about what is most important to me. Me.
I have a follow up question. I like to consider myself very receptive to people’s emotions. My own private path to empathy. And without sharing too much, because I could write all day about how I got to where I am and still not come up with an answer…
During my twenties, I was pretty successful at meeting and engaging women but every time I got up to the stage where it would elevate to something else, I always got this scared feeling from a woman. And not that I can put it into perspective, why do women, even after they lose their virginity, still look at a guy and feel scared that sex is going to change everything?
From my perspective, and it is unqiue and I love it and hate it, but I am not a bad person or a stupid person at all… anyways, my perspective is that there is a preconcieved notion that guys have to have sex to feel like a man and women have to have a successful relationship for them to feel validated. I don’t think anyone can argue with that, to some extent. Even though I didn’t understand what the signals were, I was getting the message that the girls I was attracted to were still feeling like they hadn’t had a successful relationship and were starting to worry the same thing about me.
So, being of a ridiculously open mind out of necessity, why can’t younger women find the value in having the one or two special relationships that don’t last to get to the one that might last? This is a new world and there is no need for marrying at 16 but a lot of insecure women still feel the need to be tied down to someone as if that validates them.
I can say for certain that sex doesn’t always validate a man. In fact, if you go without, the whole experience turns into something of a grand sarcastic joke. I don’t mind laughing, especially at myself, but I want it to be good natured and not “uh-oh, watch out what you say because there’s a sensitive virgin in the room.” That kind of goes against who I am. I want you to walk up to me on the street and walk away going that was one of the coolest guys I met, not to be thinking, “oh, how sad, he seems like such a nice guy but he’s never had sex so there must be something wrong with him.”
Supplant sex for marriage and that is one of the things I wonder about. Why is there are all these pressures. I wanted my sex life when I was younger to be a statement about who I was and I wound up making myself into a future punchline and now I just don’t care anymore.
Mike
A Movie
I am not ashamed of who I am either. I will soon be 49 years old and my mission is to take care of six people in my life. But if one individual does not start treating my daughter right it will be five people. I feel that I have lived my life successfully. There is a reason why I am here I wanted to learn about guys. The special guy in my life I want to understand him better. At first it was a touchy subject because I am a mother of two daughters. When you have children of your own and you have that first daughter you will understand. My gray hairs did not come naturally I earned every one. But lets give this some thought after I did some studying.
Lets say
Your daughter is 22 years old and she bring home a man that is 52 years old how would you feel? Or lets say you are 22 years old how much younger are you willing to go? You can’t go below eighteen for that is dating a minor in our judicial society. Now I would date someone my age or about two to three years older. I don’t think David meant any harm about this but it will get us to thinking. Especially when you have guys on the internet like the one who was 86 years old trying to mess around with my eighteen year old daughter. After I told her how old he was she said he is old enough to be my grandfather try like great grandfather. Her granddad my dad will soon be 69 years old. But to let you in on a secret her great grandfather if he was still living would be over 100 years old.
A Movie
One more I have a Dental Appointment.
It is something that my mom told me years ago that when men or women see someone younger it gives them an ego boost. Don’t give up Mike you might have ended up with the wrong woman. When it comes to sex both men and women think differently. When a woman makes love to a man it does not mean he is thinking long term commitment and in her mind she felt the bonding and love from him to give herself up to him and that is why women think the way they do. Now if you are making love to someone and notice that you are having negative feelings from it then something is telling you that she was not the right one. The same with the woman. Have you ever seen Gone With The Wind or Scarlett do you remember the reaction of Scarlett when Rhett made mad passionate love to her she look up at the ceiling with the eyes of hey I could go for some more of that. If you notice that Scarlett could not get Rhett off her mind especially when he made love to her. Actually Rhett could not get Scarlett off the mind either it is like his friend the barmaid said she is a poison and you will never be rid of her. Actually I am living a Scarlett and Rhett situation for I have found my Rhett.
Oh for that virgin who happen to slip off in here I hope you are eighteen years or over.
Mike,
Are you saying you are a virgin. If so big deal she will come along. You have said yourself that you have changed since you weight loss and before no one gave you a chance. Girls can be scared of having sex even if they are not virgins because they don’t want to loose the friendship they might have with the guy. Often after sex it changes with most men.
Interesting topic today. My dad is 10 years older than my mom, then after the divorce he married a gold-digging ***** who was 15 years younger, and it’s like 21 years now they’ve been together. She’s now taking care of a retired grumpy tired fool and neither seem happy but whatever, she’s still evil. I’m certain she’s cheated on him on along, but for her at the time it was all about his super successful career status, money, and designer cars/labels, etc. My mom remarried a guy a year younger, and that’s going on 20 years now as well and she is definitely the boss, but they are much happier.
Personally, after all that growing up, I’ve never liked older guys b/c of the unequal power dynamics I perceived. I like around my age or younger in guys. (Thank you, Demi!) Probably b/c I’m emotionally stunted in a few ways, ha, so I do go for younger guys, but I’d say it’s about the emotional need.
Older guys need to feel validated/still sexually potent and young/in control and want a woman they can take care of and not a woman who is a an equal challenge. Women looking for older guys are either looking for a father figure to take care of them, filling the daddy void, or else they want the status/money/prestige of someone already established. A lot of cultures are taught that the woman should go for the older man for the security. Granted, I’m sure there are soul mates who are decades apart who find each other… but in general, my opinion is that it’s based on people’s unresolved emotional issues. Then again… I also believe, to each their own and judge not.
a.movie,
Everyone was a virgin once. I would suggest you don’t even bring the issue next time you are w a woman. Let “little a.movie” take charge… nature will run its course. Maybe disclose the info afterwards w the lady.
The way I see it, you are NOT a virgin. A virgin is really someone who has never been w a lady in an environment where she was readily available (and potentially willing) for the act (bed, couch, whatever). Fucking starts in the mind…
Thanks for the advice everyone.
Marina. Your comment about worrying about the friendship. I think that is all I cared about and still do and I didn’t want something I didn’t understand to interfere with who I was and who I wanted to be friends with so I let it go.
But, now that I am sharing (pretty good secret, eh Marina?, was it worth the wait…jk) the last success I felt I had was with this girl I refer to as “the hometown hottie”. Because that was what she was, Ms. Alaska from a few years back for Maxim magazine. The first time I saw her she was wearing this hideous outfit and didn’t feel any attraction what-so-ever. But I had to work with her so I treated her how I treat all the people I work with, like a friend.
So, over a course of about four to five months I actually became pretty close friends with this girl. I told myself, over and over, that there was no desire, I just wanted to be friends with her. Well, I finally came to understand that this particular girl, who was abused at one time and was evil r-word-ed once by a tag team man and woman who drugged her and she divulged all of this to me in secret and in confidentiality. I wanted to be her friend and told her that it never changed my opinion of her in my eyes and that she is a great person and should always feel awesome about that.
Well, I am always the first to admit that I am an over-thinker. It is part of what I do and it makes my work richly rewarding beyond anything I can describe (and I have a big mouth). But I’m pretty sure I am accurate about what happened next. This girl, the abused girl, told me early on that she doesn’t date guys unless they are her friends first. I didn’t take it as a hint, I just told myself, great, friends, that is what I always wanted anyways. I am fiercly loyal to my friends and the more trust I build with them, the deeper that need to protect them gets.
What I didn’t understand is that she was developing feelings for me and was too afraid to express them and in a moment (of what I thought was weakness, but was really me being vulnerable) I told her that I am a virgin and blah, blah, blah. Can the women who read this tell me what she was thinking?
Oh my God, this guy is not mentally mature and there is something wrong with him. I wasn’t trying to connect to her to fuck her I was trying to connect to her to be a better friend and to relate to her. She had already shared so much with me, I felt that at that point it was only fair to her.
So she goes on this selfish, immature rant and basically tells me that I am “very sick” and that I shouldn’t be around her. I thought to myself, too late bitch, you already made me your friend, let me show you what that means to me. So she tried to push me away and I said no, you can’t do that to me because I care about how you feel and not how you look and if you are pushing me away from your life I want to make sure it is because you feel that I am not a strong person and not because you are afraid of who you are and you are the one who is sick but I can’t tell you that because I am your friend.
So I persisted, in a totally no creepy way (for those of you who might misread). I just stuck by her and strove to be her friend and since I worked with her at the time, she still had to see me. So what does she do?
She gets herself fired for being stubborn (a specialty of mine when I was younger) and then hatches this ridiculous plot to sue for sexual harrasment based on one massage that a young and immature sex crazed boy gave her on camera and that I witnessed. She “tested” my friendship by asking me to lie and say that she had said no to the massage and I told her to her face after I figured out what she was doing, “you’re asking me to get some young punk in trouble because you flirted with him and led him on sexually to your own advantage and now that you got caught you want me to lie and say that you got fired because you turned him down, sorry, you have equal responsibility in your own actions and you invited the touch and weren’t complaining so I’m not going to lie for you.”
After that she stopped talking to me. And by the way, this was last year when I was 30 and she was 21. Who was more mature?
It’s a complicated subject for me but I have reached a point in my life where it is starting to make sense. When I argue about age gaps, some of that argument comes from my own experiences. There is no route to take that can be copied and applied to everyone, but I think there needs to be some strong material out there that lets kids know, men and women, that friendship and created a real bond is much more important to people than getting old enough to go on your first ride.
j-dude, thanks for calling me out. I needed it and it was long overdue. I’m my own worst critic and I had this girl in her room on her bed showing me naked pictures of herself to me before she knew what my experience was like. I don’t know about just going for it. If it were that easy I would have been laid more times than I can count. I push people away out of respect for them, but now I know it is because I didn’t respect myself.
We all have our own journey and I am quite happy with the way mine is turning out regardless of my sexual experience and that is one of the best things David teaches.
Mike
a.movie,
Sometimes you can really, really hurt a woman when:
1- She starts falling for you mentally/physically
2- She starts getting some hopes, that it is kinda mutual
3- She totally feels like she was rejected when she thought she was going to have you
But next time you have a Miss Anystate showing you naked Pics on her bed, pls call me… would U share, pls?
Mike you did good coming out…some mental case that girl hope she got some professional help what a head case. At some point you have to take personal responsibilities regardless of what you have gone through.
I think Mike needs an older woman.. sorry could not help myself, can only be so serious.
And to everyone here, at least the guys that is, avoid marrying this woman at all costs:
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/weird/Indiana-Woman-Said-I-Do-23-Times.html?yhp=1
Tony
Avoid marrying who?
Avoid amrrying the woman in that news article. The woman who’s been married 23 times! I wonder how much $$ she got in alimony from each of those 23 husbands. Regardless, she might get lonely, but anyone who’s had even 1/5 as many you’d have to worry about.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/weird/Indiana-Woman-Said-I-Do-23-Times.html?yhp=1
Sorry for the really screwed up typo. Marrying I meant.
Tony888
I guess she beat Liz Taylor’s record. Man what was she trying to do set the Guiness Book of Records
Just for the record think about how many kids she had by them and how much child support she is collecting and we as American citizens have to pay taxes just to keep them fed.
Sandra,
Good point! Just like the octuplets mom, that has to be a lot of kids. But in Linda Lou’s case over 50 years.
Marina, not sure that girls are maturing younger, they are being sexualized younger. Sex & Maturity are not the same thing.
The issue here is that you can’t say a 16 years old is not ready to dress a certain way. Putting people in boxes based on their age is just very narrow minded. Martrity is a mental state which really does not have an age label on it. We just don’t agree and that is what makes it fun to discuss.
45 yr old woman and 28 yr old man… Isn’t that demi moore and ashton coocher. lol sorry can’t spell
Boy, go on vacation for a few days and you guys go wild on this May-December thing!
I was never attracted to older men in my younger days but they seemed to like me. I always referred to the real lack of attraction/compatibility on my part as the “cultural age gap.” I wanted a common cultural frame of reference in the male company that I kept and I couldn’t see it in men my father’s age. But now, oh, so many years later, here I am in middle age and finding that I am less and less attracted to men my own age: Not because they are middle-aged but because they haven’t aged very well. Many act helpless and seem to be looking for a woman who will take care of them – sorry, I’m not your mother or your nurse or the cook and/or the maid. And I am certainly not looking for a father figure or a Sugar-Daddy, or someone who expects me to check in constantly like a child with a curfew or to ask for spending money.
So, here I was last fall on vacation, standing behind a woman in a California department store who had forgotten her charge card – so they validate her account by asking her for some personal information like her year of birth…I was aghast when she gave MY birth year! She was quite matronly in appearance, very round with totally gray hair and rather rumpled-looking. I turned to my sister who is five years older and asked “Is it just me or is there a serious disconnect here?” She said that we simply had the luck of the genetic draw – we are very healthy and don’t look close to our real ages.
On the flip side, I was never into much younger guys…not because they weren’t great guys but because I had little in common with them. But I imagine that it’s all just a matter of the odds, right? I need to meet a lot more guys in order to find common interests with a few, regardless of their age. There’s how we see others and how we see ourselves…not to mention how others see us. As the volume of my monkey chatter rises, I hear myself thinking that whatever is happening to me (as an ‘old guy’ magnet) must clearly be my own doing, whether I realize it or not. My friends suggest that I don’t consider older people to be ‘dangerous’ so I must feel more free to be myself and they feel free to hit on me. Does anyone out there have a better idea?
I can’t believe that Lee’s post went by unnoticed by everyone except David!
It is indeed all about chemistry. I meet lots of couples through my work, and it really doesn’t take a genuis understand the key ingredients of a happy relationship. It has NOTHING to do with age….. and everything to do with being emotionally connected to your partner. It’s always obvious to me those that share this type of relationship … and even moreso when that connection is absent. It never hurts to look below the surface.
Jeff
he was not the only one with that opinion. everyone were just very much into putting people into age blocks. with this age difference, people under 20 and so on and on
It’s just common sense. Nice to another one with this attitude.
Jeff,
We’re debating, doesn’t mean we don’t agree. What is the issue is not whether or not there is a real connection but whether or not the real connection is going to survive the inevatible challenges that come with dating someone who is in a different range for emotional maturity.
There are certain things that come with age, including understanding respect, humility, and compassion. Sure, as kids we are introduced to these concepts and we could easily have opinions about them, but like wine and cheeses, our childhood only introduces these ideas to us and with age they become more refined and defined.
Relationships with age differences come with problems and if the bond connecting the partner is strong enough, sure people can overcome that, but most times it turns into a joke, a job, or jail time.
Whoever is younger is developing differntly than whoever is older. It doesn’t mean they can’t share the maturing process and it certainly doesn’t mean the older person can’t learn from the younger, but there are problems. And frequenlty these relationships are buil around things that aren’t condusive to a healthy relationship, like the golddiggers or the cougars in heat.
Here’s an example. I know this one couple and there is a ten year age gap. Most people would think this is okay and I think it is too and as a couple on the surface they look totally happy. Well, the girl here is 22, and the guy is 32 so you would think they would get along great. But the girl is from a Russian family, was born in Russia, and immigrated here when she was 4. So she was educated in a Western style but her family style was traditional Russian. If you know Russian families, you know that they are very protective of their children and most Russian kids (guys and girls) typically live at home until they are 25. The families also have to know that there kids are going to be all right before they let them leave the nest.
So when you have an independent minded young girl growing up in America and seeing all the freedoms her friends have in respect to their parents, they might make descions that go against a rational nature. This girl met this older guy and basically moved in with him to get away from her parents. She lives very close to me and we became friends (I’ll tell that story another time). She knew I didn’t have a car so we used to hang out all the time and we run errands together. It was a no pressure situation for me and I just went along and was myself. She built up trust with me and eventually spilled her secret about who she was living with.
She told me that the guy was great (he is, I met him) but because she moved in with him so fast because she felt she needed the indpendence from her parents led her right into this relationship that had to be built around the same thing. The guy is not a jerk, and doesn’t use her, but it happened fast and for the wrong reasons so the relationship is VERY rocky. She confided all of this to me. I listened to her and gave her my opinion. So one day after hearing about her struggles for months, I asked her why she is still with this guy if she knows she isn’t in love and she told me that she can’t move out from his house because her father would be very disappointed. She can’t move back in because the western world has her convinced that it would be an act of failure. And she can’t live on her own because she is still too attached to the opinions of her parents to let her be free and live her life the way she wants.
I told her the answer was simple. She needed to find someone great and to make the break from her live in boyfriend (they never got married) by either finding someone different or and this is what I heavily encouraged, or she needs to talk to her parents to tell them how she feels. I told her that she would be surprised how supportive parents can be if you tell them it is your descision now and that they should support it. It’s not like she wants to move to New York or anything and I even told her if her parents are worried she would be alone, then she should move in with her sister or another female roommate so they can look after each other.
You know what she did? She started falling “in love” with me. She started to linger awfully long on the hugs we would give each other after we were done our errands and she started telling me how great I was and how perfect I would be. She was starting to make the same mistake with me thinking that a live in relationship was what she should be looking for and since we had become great friends by this point, she was starting to think it would be me. She wasn’t looking at me like a friend but as a replacement to her situation and she would have been willing to take a chance with me because she knew how good of friends we were at the time.
I told her no. She got upset over it and slowly over the next few weeks she started doing her errands differnetly and eventually she stopped talking to me. We are still friends, this was one of the times I didn’t try and burn my bridges with her. But all of her problems seem to be stemming from her emotional security with herself and her indpendence. If she called me tomorrow and told me she was getting married to a man in his forties, I wouldn’t be surprised. But I would have to wonder if the guy had the sense to know her well enough that he might be just another one of these guys she tries to find and if my friend ever sees what she is doing for what it really is, he might be the next one to be replaced.
That is what I think I’m trying to say about age.
And yes it is all relative to the situation.
Mike
(ps, I’m waiting until she is single and is on her own. Then I might go back and see what is going on with her. Another one of David’s great posts dealt with this.)
Im loving reading these posts.
I personally beleive that all these relationships can work in the right circumstances. For me its all about that great connection – However most great connections are found with people of similar ages because they have grown up watching the same TV, magazines, fashion trends, etc which makes them easy to relate to. Peoples attitudes with regard to living together whether married or not have also changed greatly over the last 30 years along with people beliefs about work and masculine/feminine roles in the relationship. Because of this the majority of people will always be with someone of simliar age however there will always be exceptions and the exceptions can be a perfect relationship s long as the circumstances are right. Catherine Zeta and michael douglais…great. As long as both parties are open and being honest about what they want from each other emotionally, sexually etc…then great.
How honest and open are you? you are probably thinking “Im very honest and open” But are you really?….
I know most of the guys out there are great guys that are open and honest with their family and freinds but when it comes to connecting with a potential partner that open and honesty goes right out the window…???
I don’t think it should matter.
Does it? Certainly. People in relationshops with large age differences will face discrimination, and that’s unfortunate.
Many times, however, the people who matter will accept it.
My grandfather is 73; his wife is 50, and his daughter is 52.
A close friend is 18; her boyfriend is 33.
For some people, age is more than a number, and for others it’s just a number.
People have different standards of acceptability, and that’s just how it is, I guess.
Well, David, I have been married to an older man and a younger man. I had more fun with the younger man. However, I’ll be honest. Back then (I was around 30 and he was in his early 20’s), I never felt that comfortable with a younger man. My animator, however, just loves older women and now he has a girlfriend who is about 15 years older than he is. They are both very happy. When I wrote my first on-line profile, I was getting a lot of attention from men in their 30’s. When I asked them why they wanted an older woman like me, they said that age didn’t matter to them. I think they were looking for a sugar mama. Anyhow, I changed my profile and don’t get them anymore. My last husband (died) was about 7 years older than I, but he never seemed old. All the men I have met who are around his age (late 60’s) seem really old. Even some men who are younger than I am seem older than he was.
So, my answer to you is that age is really in your head. You can’t really go by the numbers. You have to go with the feeling you have when you’re with a person.
Ashton
Couldn’t agree more this connection as if it has anything with age it has something to do with being in the moment and there finding your connections. When you have a similar sense of humor it crosses the age barrier. Sorry Adam I just don’t agree with your views on having grown up with the same things. I think it’s more important you are one the same page with present things as living on connections made mainly from things that happen in the past seem very narrow and limited to me.