Why Do Women Fall For Bad Boys By David Wygant
Sometimes my house is called Camp David – no, I don’t have any political heads of state there, nor am I entertaining George Bush, his dog, and all his Washington drinking cronies – but I always seem to have a group (sometimes small, sometimes large) of people hanging out there.
Sometimes on a Bootcamp weekend I’ll have a whole bunch of clients staying over at my house – and then it really is Camp David! It’s like a sleepover. They all bring their sleeping bags, and we go duck hunting in the morning, and then we go do some pow wow stuff. Just kidding, we don’t really do that in the mornings!
So the other night at Camp David we had a couple of people over. There was this one woman there named Amy, and she and Khiem started talking. Khiem wanted to share something that you women tend to do over and over again.
So ladies, as the men would say, this Bud’s for you – I’ll say, ladies, this blog’s for you! Without further ado, here is Khiem.
Khiem: Thanks David. I always enjoy hanging out with you at your house because I can always meet interesting people. Yesterday, I was very fascinated by one of your friends. Amy is obviously beautiful, young and has a lot going for her, but when we started talking, she began to open up about one of her past relationships.
She actually fell very hard for a “bad boy” or a loser. He supposedly did a lot of drugs, drank a lot and he lied to her, which was a big deal breaker for her. She told him upfront that she didn’t like liars and she didn’t like hypocrites.
However, as their relationship developed, she discovered that he lied to her. She broke up with him six months ago, but I found out yesterday she is still heartbroken. She still loves the guy, because they were together for a while.
And the question is why do women get so attached to these kinds of guys?
It was really interesting for me to hear how she wanted him to want her back, but she herself didn’t really want him back. She knew that by going back to him they would go to a place that would not be good for her in the future.
What this made me realize is that Amy valued him a lot more because he made her put up with so much of his shit. Even though he lied and drank, the few times that he actually paid attention to her – the few times he gave her himself – made her value him more. Every time he would ignore her but then turn around and give himself to her, it was like she hit the jackpot.
This is something that is very difficult to understand in the psychology of people because this guy was obviously no good, but because he made himself be valued so highly, she couldn’t let go. At the end of our conversation, Amy admitted that she might just be attracted to bad boys.
But for all of the guys out there, you need to learn to lead. Be more dominant, and be more masculine. The reason that Amy fell so hard for this guy is because he truly led her – through the ups and the downs, and mostly downs in this case – he always led her. He was always doing the things that were most important to him, but incorporating her into his life.
David: What Khiem is really saying is 100% true. Women are attracted to strong, dominant men. Whether this guy was a winner or a loser, he still led her on an emotional journey.
A lot of men will do that to women, lead them up and down, but it’s an adrenaline rush that women get addicted to. Women don’t want you to be soft, and they don’t want you to be needy. Women want you to lead them somewhere. We’ll have to talk about that more deeply in another blog.
Khiem: The interesting thing is that even though it has been six months, and Amy is trying to meet other guys, she mentioned that all the new guys she’s met are highly successful – they have degrees from high-end schools, or have a great job and make great money –she’s still been unable to open her heart to them.
It was very interesting to me because while obviously she is still in love with her ex-boyfriend, the biggest problem is that she wasn’t giving these new guys a chance. She thought that she was by going out with them, but emotionally and mentally she wasn’t judging the new guys with a clean slate. She was always comparing the new guys to her ex-boyfriend.
For girls that have been hurt before and have fallen hard – if you meet a new guy, look at them with a clean slate! If you don’t, you will never see the true positives or negatives that the new guy has to offer. Every person is unique, and as much as you loved your previous boyfriend – they will never be comparable.
David: So that’s why you really should not start dating again until you’ve cleaned house. If you have an old guy or woman in the cupboard, rotting away, you need to clean that up. What will happen if you don’t is that you’ll let a lot of good opportunities pass you by because you’re not emotionally ready.
I never believed in the terminology “dating for substitution.” I’ve found that you don’t date to replace, but you start dating again to start a whole new experience.
Todays video is all about how to create heat and passion on a hot summer night!
ya, i visit camp david quite often. but instead of serving military food 3 times a day, we serve whole food cuisine, and mix nuts religiously!
wow! i was reading and reading and reading and thinking “when’re they going to say something “new”?!”
–> “For girls that have been hurt before and have fallen hard – if you meet a new guy, look at them with a clean slate! If you don’t, you will never see the true positives or negatives that the new guy has to offer. Every person is unique, and as much as you loved your previous boyfriend – they will never be comparable.”
THANK YOU!!
i was with a “bad guy” for over a year.. (broke up over 2 months ago)and i never realized why it takes us such a long time and so much pain to realize that it’s not good for us(both men and women), but now i do.. it’s the “dominating” part =S as you say
as i look back now i realize how dominating he was!! he never really listened to me, though.. and for some twisted reason i followed him..
oh, well. now i can move on with yet another realization
remember: clean slate! clean slate..
do i want to visit camp david? sure!! hehe, but first i need to get my ass over to the states
This makes alot of sense because i was or am i dont know really, in a relationship like this for 4yrs. but its hard to let go, people call me stubborn naive and weak, but i just love him and i appreciate how he used to be is just he changed all of a sudden and i know that half was my fault, but he wanted me to change so i am I have been trying, he doesnt want me to move on, but its also seems like he doesnt want me anymore either, what could i do more that am not already doing for him?
that really awesome and yet another new thing to discover. I totally agreed with Khiem said :
” This is something that is very difficult to understand in the psychology of people because this guy was obviously no good, but because he made himself be valued so highly, she couldn’t let go.”
” But for all of the guys out there, you need to learn to lead. Be more dominant, and be more masculine.”
this are my favorite one.
If you (Girls) still fall in love with bad guy and you do know he is predictable bad. Well Khiem already had the answers.
Just want to rephrase..
another one form DW :
” I never believed in the terminology “dating for substitution.” I’ve found that you don’t date to replace, but you start dating again to start a whole new experience.”
I had found most of my friends guys don’t really understand the terminology of dating instead of going “dating for substitution” as usual.
)
I’m not trying to say i’m perfect here but i believe life is all about patient.
I think once a woman realizes she keeps falling for the same type of men “the bad boy”, she should stop dating for a while … take a long look in the mirror … and figure out why she keeps attracting the wrong guy. Why does she feel the need or desire to go through such abuse? Realize she is worth far more than this guy could ever truly afford. Before we women can find the right guy, we have to become the right woman.
I’ll just wait …. maybe he’s out there. In no rush though.
Best bet on this type of woman if you run into her is to run the other way as fast and as far as you can. It won’t change and you will never measure up no matter what you do or who you are. I swear it’s like a mild version of the Stockholm syndrome that only affects the ladies.
It has been my experience that the girls I know who date “bad boys” do so for a different reason. It has nothing to do with a guy being masculine and leading you; there are plenty of good guys out there who fall in that category. It’s this whole desire to be the one to “change” the man and help him achieve everything you think he’s capable of doing. I’m not a “bad boy” kind of dater, but I have quite a few friends who are (and a little sister, who, bless her heart, even though she’s absolutely beautiful, seems to find the worst possible guy). The common theme that I’ve seen is that almost every girl who dates a “bad boy” wants him to become the person she believes he has the potential to be; therefore, when he takes some action consistent with the vision she has for who he can be, she’s hooked again. This is, of course, just my humble opinion, and I could easily be wrong….but this is the general impression I get from people I know very well.
Great blog, btw.
A while back I read somewhere love defined as getting some of your needs met while believing the person can/will meet the remaining ones at some point in the future.
Somehow it seems appropriate for this topic… Too bad there doesn’t appear to be an (emotional) consideration for how (un)likely that is to happen.
Off the topic but….
I just read an article by Mr. Wygant about 6 things women do in dating that piss men off on Yahoo. It was the single more accurate piece of dating advice I’ve ever read. Ladies, please go read it now!!
Jennifer,
You are right. A lot of women do have that inner desire to unlock the potential of a “bad boy” but that doesn’t happen until she gets to know him and sees his potential.
Women do tend to date potential more than real value. When they do that, they are really projecting their own hopes and dreams on someone else. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.
You can’t really change someone unless they want it themselves.
Now, back to the topic of the blog, I still believe women get attracted to the bad boy in the INITIAL stages of the relationship mostly due in part to their strong masculine, dominant, leadership qualities which creates the feeling of excitement, adventureness and intrigue that so many “nice guys” tend to lack.
Later on, once the girl has invested enough time to get to know the bad boy, then she’ll get attached to the desire to change him b/c she sees potential in him. She’s invested too much emotions in the relationship already and wants to believe it can turn into something good.
We all live for hope.
Jennifer, have you ever thought about what encourages these women to want to change those men even after they’ve found out that they’re no good??
I partly agree with Khiem, but here’s what i’ve experienced: my ex boyfriend’s sister always encouraged our relationship, she didn’t know that her brother was a bad boy! until i finally told her, when she asked me if we were still together (he failed to mention to her that i had broken up with him.. probably to make ME feel bad about it.. cause he was hurting etc etc)
but when i told her that, she kept saying how perfect i was for him, and what a good impact i had on him and so on…
even my friends told me at some point (during our relationship of course) that i’m the kind of girl that could change a bad guy into a good guy… i realize now that it’s the stupidest thing i’ve ever heard! no, you cannot change bad guys… they can change themselves..however you CAN affect them in a good way that’ll make them want to change themselves…
when you hear a guy say “you’re the only good thing i have in my life”.. well, that isn’t as good as it sounds.. he shouldn’t have “only ONE” good thing in his life, he should have MANY.. and you should be one of the many good things he has in his life
hey davy, you are sweet! I am telling you this because I am undercover … about your article on the mai page of yahoo: ‘it’s the crucial first few weeks’ … what! after these few weeks she could be different and it would make no difference? I doubt it. and why would you lie if you’re different, feel different? what?! no effect later when showing your true self?
Why to women-and men- fall for “dating coaches”? This is all common sense stuff that any reasonably intelligent person can discern for themselves if they sit quietly alone and are honest with themselves in the privacy of their own conscience. What at the credentials for “dating coach” anyway? Is that an Associates program or Bachelor’s? I think if you’ve been on one date in your whole life that didn’t end in humiliation for both parites, you qualify. Anyone who lists 10 fatal mistakes for men, but 14 for women obviously has their own agenda. You might want to get your advice from your most happily-coupled friends.
Seems as though we’re afraid of opposing points of view here.
Why to women-and men- fall for “dating coaches”? This is all common sense stuff that any reasonably intelligent person can discern for themselves if they sit quietly alone and are honest with themselves in the privacy of their own conscience. What at the credentials for “dating coach” anyway? Is that an Associates program or Bachelor’s? I think if you’ve been on one date in your whole life that didn’t end in humiliation for both parites, you qualify. Anyone who lists 10 fatal mistakes for men, but 14 for women obviously has their own agenda. You might want to get your advice from your most happily-coupled friends.
And yes, I know there are typos in the original statement. It’s early.
Okay…a lot of this is making sense. Was in a relationship with a guy who lead me. I loved it. However, the moments of rude disregard for me ( which I am no longer putting up with) where not fun. I allowed the frat-boy behavior because I wanted to be a part of his life on his level. I should never have done this. Compromising on what you believe in, and how you are treated as a human being is unacceptable and if not placed in check can lead to other more harmful, self-destructive behavior.
As for the guy…I confronted him and I told him the truth. I loved him but his behavior was immature and unacceptable and I deserved better then that. When he wanted to “try and work it out” I told him we could be friends but that I deserved to be treated better then he was treating me and I needed to move on.
Girls who are here at this point. It is super important to stand your ground on this. You will lose self-respect when you agree to go back, and he loses respect for you as well. Standing up for yourself will make you feel better in the long run and help you to clean out your “closet”.
LOl!! this subject is so fucking funny
Only reason girls fall for bad boys is because most of the good ones
suffer from a serious case of pussy trance haha
” But for all of the guys out there, you need to learn to lead. Be more dominant, and be more masculine.”i like this piece.i was never dominate,i didn’t lead her and i was always available.i believe with time she would fall in love with me but i was really wrong.being a nice guy won’t make her like you!i guess i f….. up big time.she left me for her ex but it was also the time i came across your article on why nice guys dont have the best of dates.i read it with tears because i was sure a fool for a year;a very long one.
To succeed in a relationship, guys have to be really dominate and dont ever be too available,needy,eager to please and never feel you are going to die if she leaves you.i am a great guy with lot of options and great adventures ahead of me.
thank
thank you this was a very useful blog, i was once in a relationship with somebody who wasn’t over her last boyfriend and its hard when you don’t get a clean slate to start on and i was never able to understand why she would do that (try to move on when she was not prepared to) and now i understand the importance of leading a woman. thank you again
lol MHudak i remember when you told me that story about your ex! and it always cracked me up ; )
haha thanks reynold i’m glad u find humor in my troubles
lol jk
ya maybe that’s because someone kicked a giant ball to my face before : (
haha u had it commin…next time you call someone’s name expect them to kick the ball in your direction
haha whatever
game set match =P
Hey,
So Khiem has teased me several times about my penchant for going after the “sweet, innocent girls”. It’s true, that’s definitely the type that gets my attention.
One thing I find remarkable is that, among the “sweet, innocent girls” I’ve dated, almost all of them have commented that they like me because I’m a bad boy.
To anyone who knows me, that’s kind of silly. I’m not a bad boy. I don’t treat them badly, I don’t drink… I don’t even wear black!
But that’s not what they mean. They mean that I get them to do things most guys don’t have the nerve for. When a girl goes out with me, we’re going on an adventure and she’s along for the ride. It’s kind of like a roller coaster… she knows she’s safe, but she’s not in control, so she doesn’t have to think about anything except throwing her arms over her head and screaming as loud as she can….
One day we might go hiking, some night we might sneak onto a secluded beach. When I pick her up I might show up on my motorcycle and hand her a helmet.
If she says she’s not sure about this, I tell her to trust me and put on the helmet. She puts on the helmet, gets on the bike, and we ride away.
It’s completely possible to have all the allures of a bad boy without actually treating her badly. The attraction comes from the new things and new experiences I lead her through, from pushing her limits to do things most guys won’t even think of, much less have the balls to try.
(This is why flowers, dinner, and a movie doesn’t work, btw…..)
– Patrick
Hey Gidi,
The single qualification for a dating coach is the ability to improve a person’s self-image and self-expression in a way that enables that person to understand, appreciate, and connect with other people. Sounds simple, right?
I guess it is, compared to designing a rocket, for example. So no, it’s not rocket science, and I guess that’s why a lot of people attempt it. The main challenge is that a dating coach is dealing with people’s understanding and perceptions….
What the coach says isn’t really what the client hears. The coach has to find at least 20 different ways of saying the same thing to get his message through. The talent is in picking the right message and the right delivery for each client.
That’s why happily married couples don’t work well as dating coaches… for the same reason that the best salsa dancers don’t make the best salsa instructors. Teaching and executing are related, but not the same.
Of course many people have something of value to say… so feel free to learn from whomever makes it click for you.
– Patrick
First time post.
To anyone who wants to reply.
I started dating this really cute girl who had an ex who was a real fuckin asshole. Treating her badly and cheating, etc. I kinda knew the guy to see around. I knew she had been finished with him a while. I could sense she was holding back. Anyway I built up some comfort with her to the point where she told me about him and what he was like. No guy wants to be talking to a girl about her ex…….
Here are the questions,
1. Is it productive to talk to girls about experiences with previous boyfriends if they volunteer the info?
2. How to change the subject without being insensitive?
I think i already know the answer to Q 1.
Barr,
#2: “I’m uncomfortable dwelling on past relationships. I’ve learned from them and moved on. I’d love to explore the idea of a fantasy relationship with you. I’m curious what you’d include.”
#1: It depends on the context and intent. Dwelling on either the negative or the positive is probably counter productive, unless it’s with the purpose & result of reaching a new understanding for moving forward. The past can be illustrative and informative. How and why it was appropriate at the time, and a great learning experience, but it’s served it’s purpose and lost it’s appeal… References to the past can be powerful, but should be used sparingly. I believe it’s easier to error on the side of too much than too little.
Ken,
Q 2: Ok that seems like a very natural way to move away from that topic. Probably should have thought of that myself.
As for Q 1, I pretty much came to the same conclusion. Its always good to get other perspectives though.
Thanks for the reply.
Barr,
I now believe it’s learning to trust your instincts in the moment. Something may come up on three different occasions, calling for three different appropriate responses.
If you fail, and learn from your mistakes, you’ve moved forward; the next interaction/relationship you have will be at a higher caliber.
It’s great when two people can keep moving forward within the same relationship; this doesn’t always happen/last…
woman like losers as they are a loser them selves so they dont have any values so they go for some trashy guy and try tro fix him and then end up in the trach themselves,