What’s Wrong With PUA Methods?
February 4, 2009 
79 Comments
Today i am going to turn over the blog to one of my coaches.
Everybody meet Khiem.
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Most of you guys who’ve read David’s blog already know what David feels about Pickup Artists and their methods. He doesn’t believe in them.
If you’ve read my blog for a while, I’ve already detailed many times what you can and can’t expect from PUA teachings.
It’s not that they necessarily don’t work. Most of them are either childish, manipulative or plainly unnecessary (therefore, it takes you longer to get good with women)
Funny thing is David and I still receive a lot of emails from guys asking us the same question over and over again:
“I recently read a book on xyz method. I want to learn more about attracting women. Do you think xyz method is a good starting point for those learning to attract women?”
Well… before we even answer that question, let me ask you a few of my own:
What are you looking for?
- What kind of man are you? Better… what kind of man do you want to be? Are you wanting to be a Pickup Artist who speaks in pickup lingo to his friends and who always have to think of techniques every time he meets a women or do you want to be a the normal cool guy with whom women always look forward to meet up?
- Where do you want to meet women? A lot of the more funny, gimmicky methods out there are geared for you to use in high energy and loud environments such as bars and clubs. It’s always good to learn how to have fun in any environments because the more you enjoy yourself, the more you project good vibes and the more attractive you become… however, do you really need to learn lines and games for you to know how to have fun?
- What kind of women do you want to meet? I’m not going to lie to you. I’ve hung out with a lot of Pickup Artists and the types of women they attract are not the same kind of women I attract. Enough said. I like to talk to intelligent, caring, independent, emotionally stable and overall confident or self-made women.
When you read about a method, try imagining what kind of women would fall for those techniques. I know a lot of PUA will tell you their stuff works on everyone but if you can feel something is fishy when you use some of their techniques or lines, the woman can too! If they don’t say anything to point it out to you, it’s because they are letting you do your thing… because they already like you.This is a huge topic of contention but when you go out using techniques, ask yourself: how much is the woman liking me because of my use of techniques… and how much is it because she already likes me for who I am and for my energy or vibe?
- Do you see women as just an object to conquer and have sex with or do you truly enjoy and appreciate all that a woman can bring or contribute to your life? This is not a criticism of ALL PUA methods but let’s be honest, a lot of these guys don’t actually like women. They just want to bed them and as such, they have loose standards on what makes a woman worthy of the kind of man they are. I personally don’t want to be with everyone out there. There’re definitely a few women that I won’t associate myself with, no matter how hot they are.
- Do you want your world to center around women? This is the biggest paradigm shift you have to accept. The world of a PUA centers around women: how to meet them, how to attract them, how to seduce them… how to chase them.
Most of the “normal” men who I’ve seen naturally successful with women have their lives centered around what they are passionate about. Women are a hobby. These men don’t place their self-worth on the amount of women they have in their lives. They place their self-worth on whatever activity they get fulfillment from.
Therefore, if your goal is to learn how to attract women by being confident, by being you, you can skip a lot of the PUA methods out there.
The reason I have is very simple: learn more about emotions and how emotions affect the woman and you’ll understand them better, connect with them better and in the end, attract them better.
You don’t need a method to learn how to do that. Methods teach you a set of techniques and tactics. Methods will give you a list of reasons on why their techniques work, how their techniques are based on the women’s needs and that’s why they successfully influence her emotions but I’ll be honest with you, their analysis is not always accurate.
There is no logic to emotions.
If your sole goal is to become a great womanizer, learn empathy and compassion. Learn how to place yourself in her shoes so that you can understand her world. By understanding her world, you will be able to navigate through her own emotional chaos and help her open up to you so she feels comfortable letting herself be seduced by you.
Instead of learning techniques A, B or C, instead of learning WHAT to do, LEARN HOW TO THINK about attraction, learn how to understand the emotions behind sexual arousal to make her feel desired, learn how to relate to the women’s needs and even more importantly, learn about yourself.
Attraction is about BEING attractive, not doing something attractive.
Real attraction starts from within because… confidence is a reflection of how comfortable you are with yourself. And that is a feeling you develop from putting yourself out there… and it’s a feeling that you create from within with the help of external reinforcing factors.
So what are the real flaws of PUA methods?
- A lot of these methods don’t really teach you how to connect with people, men or women. They see people as targets or obstacles. Is that how you want to go through life, with the mindset of “You are either with me or against me”? In a group setting, you really don’t have to WIN OVER everybody, you got to be likable, sure… it does make things easier for you to be seen as charming by everybody but the only person who really matters in the end is the person you are interested in.
- Many methods are either geared for night time OR day time. If you learn directly what emotions are about, if you learn how to figure out people’s passions, motivations and driving forces, you can “seduce” anyone, anywhere.
- Certain techniques such as negs, heavy banter or heavy cocky/comedy only work on low self-esteem, insecure, very young or A.D.D. women. Talk to any emotionally stable and/or confident women and they’ll laugh at your face if you try to neg them. Worse, they’ll just walk away from you and never speak to you again. Once again, what kind of women do you want in your life?
- Peacocking is unnecessary. Being unique and showing personality is much more advantageous in conveying the right things about yourself to the woman than being extravagant in the way you dress to gain attention. Are you really getting the right kind of attention by peacocking in the first place?Obviously, don’t neglect how you present yourself. Be well groomed. Being trendy and fashionable is a definite plus but you don’t need to go all the way out to peacock. You want to convey uniqueness, not clown.
- More often than not, it’s not what you say that matters. It’s how you say things and what/how you convey things about yourself. When you learn routines, you inadvertently train your mind to rely on clever lines to win over the girl. Having a few interesting lines here and there help but it’s not the lines that matter, it’s what the lines say about your character that matters.
- Learning routines reinforces your mind to believe that whatever you say is not good enough to attract women. You didn’t have the confidence in the first place to just say what was on your mind when you meet women. Now you want to reinforce a negative belief about yourself by using routines?
Preparing and memorizing stories ahead of time may help you gain an understanding of what you SHOULD want to convey about yourself but if you rely on them, your mind will be too cluttered with thoughts of what to say instead of being free to revel in the moment with the woman in front of you so that you can create a genuine and deep connection with her.
In addition, what if she throws something unexpected at you? Will you be quick witted enough to just listen and tell her exactly how you feel or are you going to try to remember something you prepared before. Learn how to express yourself confidently and powerfully, NO MATTER WHAT the situation is. If you believe in yourself and say things as if you truly mean them, THAT is attractive.
- Some methods don’t explain enough non-verbal communication. Attraction (in the sexual arousal sense of the term) at its core is emotional and physical. Women respond less to what you say than to what you make them FEEL. Learn how to make them feel strong emotions by the way you look at them, by the way you touch them, by the way you talk to them and by the way you use your body as an extension of what you want to tell them.
As you can see, there are a lot of things to be aware of if you want to go down the PUA method route. Not all is bad but is that really necessary?
If you learn how to attract women the PUA way, it might take you longer to get good with women. Why?
Because they may teach you things that don’t really matter.
If you don’t get distracted and stay focused on the right things, things will become much easier, much faster than you expect.
Real confidence is gained by doing it enough times without reinforcing the wrong mindsets. Some methods will help you do that, many won’t.
One last thing I thought I should really point out. Nobody has really addressed this issue publicly before but the PUA lifestyle is an illusion. It’s unsustainable. The appeal of dating 3+ women at the same time is not realistic UNLESS that is all you do in your life.
Do the math yourself!
In a week, you have 168 hours available to you.
- Let’s assume you have a full time job of 40 hours per week.
- Let’s give you an average 7 hours of sleep per night, which adds up to 49 hours.
- Let’s add 3 hours of physical activity per week.
- Let’s give you an average of 4 hours per day for cooking, meal and snack time, totaling 28 hours per week.
- Let’s put 10 hours of driving time… for various commutes and traffic jam time (which is a low estimate)
- Let’s add 2 hours per day for hobby or down time (tv, computer, reading, emails, video games, other form of socializing like phone time with friends, chatting, happy hour… ), totaling up 14 hours per week 144
This sums up to 144 hours of “used time.”
This leaves you 24 hours to juggle: going out to meet women, calling/texting them to set up dates and other kind of errands and responsibilities I have not taken into account.
If you were really good, you might be able to sustain some form of semi-serious relationship with 1 or 2 women… but anything beyond 3 is stretching it… unless meeting and attracting women is all you do in your life or unless you are only going for casual partners.
So what do you think now? Write your reactions in the comments section.
If you want to learn how to attract women the natural and simple way, go take a look at the Men’s Mastery Audio series where David Wygant will give you all sorts of simple exercises that will help you learn the right things about women without any of the gimmicks.
Today another one of my coaches will show you how to meet both men and women by rolling over with love.
Nice! First we have that guy from VH1′s method. Then we have the dog method, and now all we need is the chicken method.
I’ve seen some of these PUAs on Youtube and whatnot, and they do have something going for them, which they seem to be very comfortable in their own skin. PUA methods seem to be like taking something that really isn’t black and white and making it so. Perhaps, it’s a result of a goal-oriented mentality as well.
By the way, I have a friend that swears by one of these PUA methods, and I hope he reads this blog today! Thanks, David!
Dave
Good post Kheim. I read it over on your blog. It’s so true what you say. Most of these guys have NO clue what they want and when you ask them, all they can really say is, “I want a really attractive girl.”
That won’t get you anywhere.
You gotta know what you want and be sincere when you approach these people. If you are going to feel as though you need to act a certain way to get the girl that you want, when are you going to feel comfortable NOT acting that way?
Just be the person you like to see yourself as and be authentic and genuine. The women you want in your life will see that.
David, glad you have this guy on your team! Good acquisition!
Interesting post. I agree as a woman, that when I am approached by a man using these silly approaches it is pretty evident. I cannot tell you how many conversations I have had with my friends in which we shared stories about how some guy tried this kind of stuff and we laughed about him. And he is so easy to spot in a crowd. He’s the one with a cheesy grin, quasi-fashionable clothes, and is leaving a trail of irritated women in his wake.
Kheim said this: “If your sole goal is to become a great womanizer, learn empathy. Learn how to place yourself in her shoes so that you can understand her world. By understanding her world, you will be able to navigate through her own emotional chaos and help her open up to you so she feels comfortable letting herself be seduced by you.” That made me cringe.
No woman wants a womanizer. That is her worst nightmare. If any man’s goal is to be this, he is just really a more sophisticated type of a PUA. “Learning empathy” to try to make a woman more comfortable so that she may be seduced is an awful thought. The more guys do this type of thing the more women become hardened to men. If you want to create a man-hater, that is a great way to do it. But, I guess it doesn’t matter what happens to her if the guy gets what he wants I guess.
And it must be said that women as a sex are not filled with “emotional chaos”. What an awful and presumptuous thing to say about women.
I did not get to see the video it told me it was no longer available. I have a question though don’t guys watch each other to see what kind of line they use to pick up women. Or use a line over and over again because it worked the first time? I call these ploy’s and they sure don’t work for me. If I know the guy for awhile they can get by with calling me pet names. When a man comes up to me and says hey baby with those eyes like he is about to sleep with me well he can try that trick on someone else not me. PUA is for players and I think I work with a few of them. lol
Bunny
I agree with you. But what I don’t like is when the men get the treasure chest they seek then the next morning they are off to see another woman.
That sounds like to me an one night stander playing the field to see how many trophies he can collect. Don’t get me wrong not all guys are seeking sexual approval from women. But us women get a big kick out of talking about those guys who are hard up and desperate.
Sandra
Let see what a PUA can do:
1. Notch on the pistol
2. Trophy on the shelf
Last but least the five f’s.
The man better play hard to get sex out of me. For I am not that easy. We have a road that is called Dickerson Road in Nashville if the money is right she will give u want she wants. Did I not see a few PUA pick up a few of those women/prostitutes. Go there for your fun. I am not the one.
Watching Daphne a thought came to my mind why is it when you give a man a back rub it feels good. Then he wants sex afterwards? I know this for I have given men back rubs and they get relaxed and all of a sudden under the covers we go. I will be at the teleconference tonight at eight cst.
dave
Send your friend to the blog and video!
Boo, I can’t believe David didn’t post the entire blog… we just edited the post to include the entire blog.
As far as bunny’s comment on emotional chaos…. I’m not trying to make a negative assumption on women. Men have emotional chaos too! But my point was if you are understanding of people (through empathy and compassion) you learn to lead them in better places, even in the sexual realm.
If you’ve read David’s blog for a while, you’ll realize that we don’t teach men how to be womanizers. We teach men to empower themselves in ways that help them become attractive in life… and that includes their ability to attract the kind of women they desire.
Khiem
I was married to a womanizer that even admitted to me he was one. He took my love for granted. Just a memory from the past that I laid to rest. Being with a womanizer is no fun and they make a woman’s life miserable.
Khiem,
I did not say that David’s blog teaches men to be womanizers. I am referring only to your post today. YOU not David. David didn’t write this post, you did.
Here’s what you said again: If your sole goal is to become a great womanizer, learn empathy. Learn how to place yourself in her shoes so that you can understand her world. By understanding her world, you will be able to navigate through her own emotional chaos and help her open up to you so she feels comfortable letting herself be seduced by you.
I’m not making anything up. You are the one who said it. I am referring to what you said only. You are the one encouraging womanizing by your own words. If you don’t like womanizing why try to teach it????
“Lead them”…. that sounds like a lot of fun. How about encourage or try to have them care about or love you. And why in the world would anyone attept a realtionship with someone in “emotional chaos”. OMG!
Bunny
Sandra,
Once I had this friend and she was a nice girl and she was a bot needy but she is the type of girl who believed the best in people regardless…but she became very hard to be around after a while because she had an awful outlook on men. The reason this was is because she let men in her life who “navigated her emotional chaos” made her think they cared, seduced her, and big surprise they would stick around for a few weeks maybe a month and were gone. She began hating men because she was so hurt. I learned a lot of her lessons without making the same mistakes she did. I am so sorry that happened to her.
Bunny
Bunny,
You are right. The context in which I wrote is ambiguous. I personally don’t encourage men to be womanizers.. but I do encourage men to learn more about emotions… learn more about empathy and compassion… not only so they can better understand their own lives, but so they can better understand women as well.
You have to remember something. The blog I wrote was meant for these PUA type of guys. It’s also directed to the shy guy who only learn how to date better through these PUA methods. It’s meant for them to wake up and really realize that life is about emotions…. and attraction is also about emotions… and how you make every person feel.
Attraction is about making each other feel good. And that was the point I was trying to make with my paragraph. I wanted these types of guys to stop looking for the magic pill in a method and really wake up and smell the roses.
Attraction is a lot simpler if you just pay attention to emotions. When you learn about how people feel about themselves, you can help them feel good and empower them just as much as you empower yourself.
Maybe Khiem wrote that new Britney Spears song… “Womanizer”.
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“Master Po, tell me about women”
“Grasshoper, don’t talk about womanizing them, just womanize them, but in a quiet way, like a peaceful Bamboo in the grass fields”.
Alll kidding aside, excellent post Khiem!
Bunny
I am too. But good riddens to that piece of shit anyway. When he said he wanted a Divorce I was glad to get him out of my life for good.
Khiem,
I really appreciate that you are being helpful by what you are writing. It is not just me who has an issue with it. Sandra sees a problems, too. If what you meant was what you just said, then I wish you would have said it in your original post. Because, I have to tell you I could not believe my eyes when I read that. Absolutely repugnant.
There is nothing empowering about navigating a woman’s emotional chaos if there exists any to manipulate her into sex, and that is exactly what that paragraph says. Nothing empowering on either end. Why would you encourage a PUA guy or any guy in this way at all?
Please when you “encourage” men in this way again, think of the women in your life….a sister, mother, aunt, the waitress at your favorite restaurant trying to get by. Would you want someone encouraging any man to “navigate their emotional chaos” to seduce them? I doubt it.
Bunny
Hi Sandra,
I’m glad you are free of him. I am sure is was a devastating experience for you. I hope that you are able to get some peace and know that if a man is a womanizer it is his issue, not yours. It doesn’t reflect on you. You didn’t deserve it and you’re still a great person with a lot to offer.
Bunny
Bunny
Come to think about how would these guys like it if their own mother, sister, aunt or favorite niece was seeing one of these guys. Worst of all their daughters. I don’t know if these guys have children but when it comes to kids the last person on Earth you want to make mad is mom. If my dad even sensed that I was around a womanizer he would be giving me hints to stay away from them. Once a man flunks my daddy’s little girl test and hits the bottom of the pole with him I know that I will have problems out of the guy. Didn’t you know that my dad knows men better than I before that guy that wants to be with steps out of the car my dad has figured him out.
Sandra & Bunny–
I think Khiem used the term womanizer as in “player”, not as in “cheater”.
I could be wrong, but usually I’m not. BTW, I’m so humble.
Yeah Khiem,
I was just beginning to like you and now I know, you are a PUA in sheep clothing….:-) You are leaving us girls defenseless in your wake.
By saying “if your goal” Khiem was just trying to get the attention of PUA’s and people that think all they want is to be a womanizer. It’s a attention grabber that’s all.
Sometimes too a womanizer can too be so insecure about him self because he really does not know what he want in life, young and old alike.
You will only be fooled by these dimwits if you yourself is unstable, and instead of becoming sour on men you learn from it, sometimes it has to get real bad before you get your act together to get yourself back in shape. You can’t do the blame game, you allowed it yourself to happen and you have to take responsibility for what happen. There are so many great men out there, but if you attitude is that they are scum bags then the good ones will be turned away from you hostility.
Some PUA might stop here with a comment like If you goal and think Ah a new technique lets learn to use it, but what they don’t get. The things this way of thinking asks you to do will lead them to questions they most likely never have asked themselves about. Before they know it I have the feeling many of them no longer are the PUA they thought they wanted to be.
A.movie
we are still waiting feedback on your date…
Hi Sandra,
The problem is I think that most people in general don’t think about reprocussions on the other side. When my friends go through what you have been through it breaks my heart and it makes me all the more cautious.
I feel bad for guys, I have to say. I only have a small idea of what they go through and their anxieties. They want to connect with us and sometimes have no clue. For some guys, approaching a woman must be horrifying. The PUA stuff doesn’t help because we see through it. And I have to think that there are some probably sweet guys out there just trying to meet a girl and are grasping at these PUA techniques and they keep getting further and further from their goals for meeting a compatible woman.
I think this underlines David’s teachings that we have to throw Scooby Doo a bone a lot more than we think.
Bunny
There are three different types of Players take a toll and see how many men will use one of the techniques.
1. The Ego Driven Players
2. The Social Players
3. The Physical Players
Womanizer
constantly look for sex: to be constantly in search of casual sex with women. I see that looks like one of the three mentioned.
Maybe I should have rewritten it as “if you want to truly learn what attraction is about and empower yourself to be a truly attractive man, you need to learn about empathy and compassion”…
But well, it’s already written… and I can’t edit it anymore.
However, I really appreciate all the women’s comments because it is to show men out there who may read this how women TRULY feel on the topic
Bunny
You are right. Also if a man wants to seek help to want to understand us women that is fine. Not all men are the same. I have a close male friend that will remind that he is not like the guys that I have been with. There certain categories of men. Sometimes in life we take the good with the bad and move on. That was in my past and I intend on leaving it there.
Marina
You are right as well. Men will sometimes pattern after one another to chase women. Or ask that guy hey how did you get that woman and what was it like being with her. Like my mom told me they will discuss the night before and don’t think they wont. Sometimes I wonder if they compare notes to see what the best pick up line is.
Khiem
If a man is bold enough to save up the money for a boot camp with David then I am proud of him for wanting to learn how to attract women. But that person has to be willing themselves to change and make a better way for themselves in life. But if they get the teachings and go out and be the same person then they just wasted their time with David, You and the other coaches.
Even myself I took the time and studied out if I wanted to join the community even though I knew that it was for men only. Maybe if I see for myself how the better half live then maybe by chance it will help me understand men better and see what they go through to catch us women. Or I would not have wasted anyone’s time.
Hear you on the teleconferencing at 8pm cst.
Hi Khiem,
Meow! There you go! Love it! Thank you. :0)
What you just said is perfect. Thank you for listening to me. That was a great sentence too!
How we TRULY feel….yeah, I do give my opinions decidedly.
I do appreciate what you said! :0)
Bunny
Now lets pick on us girls, there are a lot of PUA girls too. Equally driven just to score on shallow reasons and not thinking about the mess they too leave behind. Women knowing how visual most men are and often lonely too can really use their bodies to wreck havoc.
But I honestly believe in the good of people, not to excuse them but often the people that does all these things are really not happy. They are missing something in their lives and they just don’t know it. Maybe I am romantic but that is ultimatily how I choose to look at life. Actually I am that confident that I laugh at obvious PUA’s, they can still be fun company if you break down their facade. Often they are humans too behind it all.
And here I thought since I am not a big bar nor night club girl that I was safe from PUA’s, you guys ruined that whole illusion will all your PUA, uh sorry connections you do in my favorite grocery store Whole Foods. It will never be the same…:-) Can’t we just call it Wygant Foods from now on and we can just wear a badge and skip all the small talk and go straight for a cup of coffee..
Come to think about us women do use our charm to catch a man as well. I do agree with u Marina.
It takes all kinds to make up this world. But there are those who call it as they see them.
Hey Girls,
Yeah, but guys LOVE our charm. ;0) They wouldn’t want us to ditch that for anything. And I know for a fact men love looking at our bodies, too….
Suffice it to say, anyone manipulating another person to seduce or control is just wrong. I’m sure there are woman who do it too.
Nighty-Night,
Bunny
Yeah we all kissed and made up…..Cheers to every one
and J-dude since when where you humble…In my opinion a player is a cheater…It’s similar to the men who says I am single even if he is with a girl just because they are not married. But then again I could be wrong, but I am girl so even when I am wrong I am wright.
Good night everyone have some sweet fantasies…..
This was a good thread but what about some of the PUA guys chiming in.
Marina,
“a player is a cheater”… interesting point. What about players dating women (or viceversa), where the exclusivity topic has not come up yet? Would they still be cheaters?
As far as married people, yes, cheaters are cheaters, no disagreement here.
I would say I used to be a PUA. Actually a very bad PUA. And I am a Sr. in college. I just tryed to follow the methods. I once negged a girl by telling her that her hair looked like a waffle (directly from the mystery method book). This girl flipped out, yelled at me, and to this day still gives me a dirty look when I see her for very good reason. I did appologize several times.
I bought several dvds of many different methods off of ebay. I would jump around each method not really picking one to stick with. I never got good at any of them. I even gave myself a PUA name “Domino” and would where a domino around my neck for peacocking.
Well I could go on for days about the other crap I did but…
one day I randomly saw one of David’s vids on youtube in the related videos to some PUA stuff I was following at the time. I was so intrigued I watched all of his 200+ videos on youtube. I started reading the blogs starting from the first blogs. So this was last summer during my internship. Everyday after work during the summer I would go to Barnes and Nobles to read and would talk up some women there. Then I would go to Target and so the same. Everyday I would talk to about 5 different women.
I learned something really important. Some attractive looking women are fun to talk to some are not. Some not-so-attractive looking women are fun to talk to and some not. So in the end a not-so-attractive woman may become attractive. Also I realized the older the woman is the easier she is to talk to, and more fun.
Since starting to learn from David last semester was a blast. But everyday brings its highs and low. All I can do is chug along and keep investing in myself. Any questions?
Nice blog here Khiem, I texted David last nite commenting on how great this article was when I read it on your website. You should write more, your an amazing and entertaining writer Khiem. And seeing the responses to your blog, quite a polarizing writer at that! For Bunny and Sandra, I have personally met Khiem in person and have had numerous conversations with the man. I’d give him the benefit of the doubt, with the womanizer comment. I saw that part you gals were commenting on as Khiem telling guys out there as a simple lesson. Be truthful! If guys just want to get laid, then be honest about it with a woman and just be natural and listen to a woman to feel for her and listen to her. If a man is able to give himself fully to a woman, his energy and attention. then there’s a great chance a woman will willingly and truly give back and reciprocate
Great post again Khiem
In Kheim’s defense, when I first read the part about being a “womanizer” I gave him the benefit of the doubt and credited it to possible lack of understanding the English language. I don’t know if Kheim is a foreigner, but it appears as though he may be. I don’t think he was encouraging womanizers to become better at it, he was trying to discourage it. I gave him the benefit of the doubt based on his grammar. It’s not all that easy for foreigners to use certain phrases as we’re used to here in America. As a David Wygant staff member, I’m sure that’s his views align with that of David’s. I didn’t bother reading the lengthy comments left by the women here, but I can see they didn’t give him a benefit of the doubt.
As for PUA’s, I totally agree that they are unnecessary. Quality women don’t fall for those. As an intelligent male, I want someone who’s at my level and if I lower myself to using ridiculous, childish lines, I’ll end up with that kind of woman. One who has may have a great body, but nothing upstairs.
Josh,
Good stuff there. I have done the same by going to Coffee Bean (free wi-fi!) and target and other places where I know decent women will show. Some women are inviting and others are not. I’ve also talked to girls at the gym and gone out with one so far. In fact, just yesterday I got turned down pretty bad and I wasnt’ even trying to pick up! I DON”T PICK UP! I was stretching and there were three girls next to me, they looked young but not too young and so I heard one of the girls pep talking the other telling her that if she wanted a flat stomach like hers that she had to work hard. So I jumped in and asked, you have a flat stomach? She was nice and said, “Well I’m trying” and so I asked her if she knew how to do sit-ups on that big ball and she showed me. Very friendly. Well, one of her friends (the ugly one) was sitting closest to me and they all began talking to eachother and so I overheard them talking about school and so I asked, “Are you girls in college?” and the ugly ass told me, “No! WE’re in high school.” I responded, “No way!” and she said yeah!, But I could see in her face that she just said that to make me leave. And so I did. I don’t really care about that. I just walked away and realized that sometimes you get invited and other times you get blown off. At least I didnt sit there and stared at them like most guys do at the gym.
I’m just being friendly. Not a PUA!
Great post Khiem,
When you read anything, It can sometimes be misinterpreted. For when I read that line of becoming a womanizer, I took it from my standpoint of being respectfull for woman. So I hadn’t even notice a conflict to the woman’s point of view.
Allright I don’t know if that makes sense. But anyway, different people will take something differently. In this case I think most guys who are associated with David’s community (like me) we don’t learn from david to become PUA but instead try to better ourselves and learn more of how to interact naturally with woman so we can have a real connection with you. Like Khiem’s post conveyed.
I know you guys got the air cleared but just my 2 cents. And Sandra, that comment about a mother, sister ect… really hits home to me lately. I got really close to my 3 nieces during the last 2 years. They are 5 , 6 and 8 years old. And I already dread seeing them in adolescent years…. We were watching Bad boys 3 the other day and felt like practicing the scene with the boyfriend who comes to pick up the daughter/niece.
Just a question for you parents out there, does it get easyer with time? Cause I’m trying to coax the parents to send them away to a nunary.
O yeah and haha funny video, I tried the dog method today. I got petted allright, his name was Bubba and we where behind bars.
Khiem – nice blog. It made perfect sense to me. It’s a well thought-out presentation with good questions that all guys should ask themselves if they really want to connect with anyone in a different way than in the past. It’s like reading a transcript of you asking guys in person (like over many beers) or in a workshop to stop the BS and quit defending something that clearly doesn’t work or else you wouldn’t be having to deliver this Q & A. Now if you can just make them listen! I salute your efforts…including with Daphne! Ya gotta start SOMEWHERE, eh?
Very nice post!
I think of all the PUA techniques as ways to express myself and to have fun. If I don’t like it then it’s not for me. But none of them are required to attract girls.
haha yeah eh started on the street but ended somewhere else eh
MAC
You are right Khiem is from another Country and it is best you read our comments I know that a man will hear what he wants to hear or read and disregards the rest. Let me tell u something I work with women who think men are nothing but trouble. But I think differently. The English language is the hardest language to learn. I check out Mexicans and I know a little Spanish. But I give Khiem credit where credit is due him. But he is at least trying to understand us.
Kheim
How long have you been State side from your Country.
David
On your Teleconferencing last night once you and the gang stopped recording I listened to it for about an half hour later. You need to have someone check that. For when someone calls in they should be with their voice on the computer it sounds like a chamber effect not 10 to 15 minutes later. When I was talking to Khiem where you were on the computer you were talking about someone penis. If you need help go to draac.com. Just a suggestion.
Sandra
MAC
I see what kind of man you are I will only listen to men but turn deaf ear to a woman no wonder women will turn deaf ear to u. Fine we can play that too. Do you practice distant and withdraw on a woman. Watch Me as I do the same.
MAC,
I have had a similar experience with girls being too young. I used to be afraid to talk to girls that looked younger than me since I am 21. They could be less than legal. But a friend of mine rememinded me that you can’t go to jail just by talking to them. So I was using age as an excuse not to talk.
But funny story. I was at a community party. My great aunt being the sweet lady she is pointed at two cute girls and said “They look cute Josh go talk to them” Now I knew they had to be young but I wanted to humor myself. Now they were sweet and inviting but they were 15. I almost choked on the food I was eating, I have a sister who is 15. Holy crap, where were these girls when I was 15?
Canadian Vince
The young ladies in your life will be the women they will become. I have a short story of my own. When I was a teenager this guy told me he would come to see and call me. But he did not so when he started to work for my dad he was bragging about him and I in our teenage life. Well one day I caught my dad and his friend and I said I will put the brakes on his paddy wagon and looked my dad in the face and said: he is not a man of his word and not a gentlemen and I told my dad what he had done and I said dad you can tell him or I will and you wont like what I have to say. Dad said to me don’t say anything I will tell him myself. But to add I said to my dad and his friend a gentlemen does not tell a lady he will do something and not follow through with it. Both of their eyes got big as saucer plates. No telling what my dad said to him but today that man is proving he is a gentleman and a man of his word. Oh another thing I work with this guy and he and his wife had a daughter and he was showing me what he was going to do with sword if junior even hurt his daughter. When I talk to guys about daddy’s little girl first junior has to pass daddy’s little girl test but here is what you do let mom sit at the front door well the guy thinks that one is easy but when the go out the back stand there with a shotgun and ask junior what are your intentions with my daughter.
Yes Mac my dad owns his own business but like he told me once the money is gone they are gone and don’t worry about me I am daddy’s little girl my story. I know the woman better own a business of her own and have clout. I don’t want a man that has money all I want is the person for if you marry guy for his money you will not be getting much.
I’m 31 and good looking at that. I don’t look my age. Anyhow, I felt a bit foolish realizing they could have been high school students. I talk to girls based on observations, like David W says. It works most of the time. The times that it doesn’t it’s because they were Air Words. Keep up the good work.
PUA vs ways of the Wygant,
As a women looking at both approaches, PUA and W’s followers in general have one thing in common they all want to date the beautiful women. Granted W’s way does give them a better chance to develop on a personal level that also can benefit other areas in their lives, which in the long run leads to a better whole person. Both are initially based on superficial reasons to approach women. I hear Ugly ass, decent women, I love my women because they are beautiful, I am single so I can have phone sex with one and lock lips with another. As a woman it’s a bunch of crap, if we looked at you guys with such a narrow mind you would never get a chance to have any conversations with any of us.
The fundamental difference is that we women do not make these issues our main goal interacting with men and especially not in the beginning. We don’t just want or just desire you initially because you are physically attractive. It’s the way you make us feel when you talk with us. That is why so called “mediocre” men hang around drop dead hot women, you know the ones all men want to date. We rarely see the opposite happening, hot guy with a “mediocre” woman.
It really boils down to a difference in mindset between men and women:
Men are beautiful because we love you, you love women because they are beautiful.
You inspire and make us feel good and thus become this amazing man, you on the other hand is inspired by our beauty, then the way we make you men feel.
I am in no way a bitter woman, I have had an amazing life and love men…and now I will wave the Freaking Foreigner Flag…If you happen to misunderstand me it’s only linguistic and cultural reasons…:-)
Nice article for the most part, confidence from within is attractive. Confidence from memorizing a script will vanish at the slightest upset.
Only thing I have a beef with is being called a “hobby”. I’d never consider my man a hobby and sure hope he doesn’t consider me one either.
Marina,
Hell yeah… give me the beautiful women!
J-dude,
That’s my boy knew I could count on you
Show me the hunkmister the one who respects women and I will show him a good time at that. A little charm and comfort never hurt any man.
But I do know women that can get their bills paid up from a man just wiggle that pussy in front of them and wow they will take you on! But to bad I am not that way.
May I add just bend over and say you know you want it baby come and get it! Bring that cowboy on and I will ride em anytime. Spare the horse and jump the bones of a cowboy.
Sister,
Your comment made me laugh. Women themselves are not a hobby… but the activity of socializing and going to meet women is a hobby
Top job Khiem, I’m 100% behind you.
Speaking from experience, there are positives that can come from trying PUA material. One is that it can allow you to test the water and have first hand experience of outrageous flirting. For someone who has little to no experience of this, it can be an easy first step. You can learn how to speak smoothly to women by trying different tones as well as practicing body-language and seeing what works best for you. Also it may help you overcome fear of approaches. Because you are not thinking of what to say, you can concentrate on other factors that contribute to being attractive.
I don’t believe in PUA techniques, I used to use them so much I must have had the exact same conversation with about 50 girls. Since taking David’s bootcamp I have not used a single PUA technique. But what I am saying is, ultimately it is interaction which you will learn from. It’s better than doing nothing.
Using PUA techniques is a lot like learning to skate blind-folded. You will learn the basics of how to move, and you will improve your balance. But because you are unaware of what is happening, you have little to no control over the situation. Eventually you will land on your bum-bum, it could be after 10 seconds, 10 minutes or 10 hours. You will only get so far, to go further you will need to take the blind-fold off. Only then will you will be able to move gracefully in a manner that those around you will admire.
Hi,
and this may sound stupid but I’m not 18 or older <— I’m almost 18) The difference with David is that he doesn’t teach you the script. He teaches how to be yourself in a cool way.
I have seen allot of PUA stuff and it’s really bad. It sounds so easy but when you have to do it by yourself it is really hard if you aren’t familiar with that kind of things. And other problems are also in those videos where you see them in field it looks so easy, but they put allot of tips in it and there was always a question im my head like “What if she would react with something else to that question or action you just have done”. Because not every women is the same. So you would need a script for every women which is something that is impossible. I luckely found David on the internet which helped me already allot. In the future I’m planning to also take a bootcamp. (At the moment I don’t have the money for it
I have a question for one of the coaches, what do you do against the nerves at the first approach?
I know it’s a bad thing but sometimes I wait too long and after that I just let it go.
Sorry if my English isn’t correct for 100% that’s because I don’t live in a country where the main language is English
Johnny
Khiem
I love boy toys get it. I love to play with them all right. And meeting men is a hobby too. Just gotta know what to do to get their attention and keep them in a relationship what can I say NEXT!
I love it when I get hit on by PUAs! It is so fun to bust their chops and take them down a notch.
If I actually like a guy and he is using PUA techniques. I will tell him straight up that I like him as a person, but I will not respond to him if he is using PUA techniques with me. I let him know that to get anywhere with me he has to be real. Period.
I have questions on ‘empathy and compassion’?
Let’s say the girl I’m talking to right now is feeling sad/depressed with her life. So shall I stay with her in the moment letting her express her worries and fears, or try to listen for a while then try to bring her back to a more positive mood?
Yes, it is true, for the most part that PUA can be pretty lame but I think the original idea was to help men learn ways to approach and date women. I mean, where could a guy go for advice on learning to meet and date women…from our parents? That was pretty much it. These days it can be so competitive and I realise the women may feel threatened by the manipulation of PUA but when you gals go out and get boob jobs or wear push up bras and wear very revealing clothes you know exactly what your doing. The way we’re all traditionally taught by our parents was to be kind, chivalrous, nice guys and…thats what all the girls would say that they want BUT in reality these same women would take advantage of these men in getting free dinners, vacations etc.
and meanwhile their having wild sex with the rock musician, the college football quarterback or the bad boy. We nice guys, after all the material gifts and attention we give her we’re left with…”Oh, your such a sweet man and I don’t want to ruin what we have together”. “Lets just be friends”. The nice guy still doesn’t have a clue so he figures he should just be the bad boy which women seem to be so attracted to. I know this sounds like frustration coming from me. I agree with David’s philisophies and it has helped me change my whole mindset. But I know a lot of guys who have been down this road and still are to this very day.
What a great post! What really hit me about the responses is how men and women can really speak different languages! This is such a common problem between the two sexes…semantics! Men intend one thing and women hear another. There should be a whole section…maybe I’ll post another blog or podcast about the different languages the different sexes speak! Men often are more direct, specific and to the point without necessarily thinking about how that might impact the other person. Women are much more into feelings and validation. Khiem, it was great when you validated Bunny’s feelings…perfect example!
So there are so many different definitions of what a womanizer is. Definitions of this nature can often come from people’s experiences so we should all be sensitive and clarify what each other mean! Great conversation…thanks all!
Coach Kimberly
Kimberly,
It’s not about my feelings or the difference between man and woman speak. I was not looking to have my feelings validated, I was looking to have him admit his statement was outrageous. Read this: If your sole goal is to become a great womanizer, learn empathy and compassion. Learn how to place yourself in her shoes so that you can understand her world. By understanding her world, you will be able to navigate through her own emotional chaos and help her open up to you so she feels comfortable letting herself be seduced by you. It’s the difference between right and wrong.
There are NOT many different definitions of womanizer…there are just a few and they are all very negative. Please look it up on dictionary.com.
I am so over this and don’t understand why so few are getting it. After reading this and so many negative comments from the guys here, one of which won’t even read the women’s responses but just knows we’re wrong some how without giving it any examination is just weird. Some of these guys really do have an unfavorable view of women. It just oozes from some of their statements.
This is my last visit to this blog because of the negativity and the fact that so few can acknowledge an outrageous statement when they read it.
Good luck and thanks to all…
Bunny,
Pass me a tissue. I take issue w your lack of sense of humor.
Wow Khiem! That was a lot of great information and a really great way for guys to dig deeper and ask those questions about themselves. I thought about the one where you asked where do you really want to meet women (well, guys for me) at? That was thought provoking for me to come up with those 5 places that David talks about.
J-dude,
be nice, sounds as if she has been walked on in the past. She sounds very confused. First she accepts Khiem new explanation and then right being upset. Both men and women can really fuck up another persons head if they have been played with.
i’ve used pua tricks. got me a date no problem with one chick, only problem was i had to keep thinking one step ahead ahead of her about what to say next…they don’t work in a way. she didn’t want to see me again after the 2nd date, il never use pua/bs tips again. They do work to a certain point..but its crazy stuff what you have to say …
A player is what it says he will do anything to score a piece. You can not change him so that guy is nothing but a waste of time and effort. I get a big kick out of a guy that tries to use them but I come back with a sillier remark like yeah you wished but keep pressuring me and here goes my mouth. I will ask do I have SLUT written on me somewhere and send him packing. Do I look like a sex symbol and a guys play thing. I am not your play object just to play on emotions and feelings go play that on someone else.
Kimberly
It seems like you are trying to promote or make excuses for Khiem. That is the pink lense effect and get him out of trouble with most of us females. I do realize you two work together and are friends but he just used his words wrong. Or mistyped them. Let Khiem speak for himself.
J Dude
Are you Mr. Tease but don’t Please. Here I will hand you a tissue so you can wipe your nose. I still luv ya.
Sandra, I have been around a good looking player, he won’t do much work. And he won’t say much either, women have taught him to be careful with what he has to say.
Hunter
I have heard that players a woman can not change. But I was told this by a man that was married to a wonderful woman. If it weren’t for her to keep me straight and teaching me about love I don’t know what shape I would be in. You know something to think about it men and women do help each other out in relationships it may take time though. But the two can learn from one another or it becomes where one person is not opening up. Both people need to be open and honest with each other and let the other know how they are feeling at the time so each person can work on the matter at hand.
i tried the PUA artist techniques on a female friend before….she was pissed with me a whole week! its mostly bullshit in my mind….thankfully said chick and I hang out and get along better than ever….id like to make a move though….ill wait till she’s done with her current bf.
Awesome post. I like your writing style Khiem. It’s genuine and sincere, and yet methodical.
I personally despise the term “PUA” and would never want it to be my identity. Nevertheless I have been in the “community” for about a year and a half. Met a ton of “aspiring-PUAs” and read majority of the material under the sun. Having said that, here is my “PUA” opinion on the post.
Two things came to mind after reading the article.
1) portrayal of the community
2) pick up lines/methods/routines
…
1) The stereotypical depiction of the PUA world comes mostly from the best seller book and vh1 reality show. Both of which do a heck of a lot more harm, than good. They paint a very skewed and extreme picture, along with coining the childish and all-encompassing term of “Pick Up Artist”.
I found a number of dating gurus in the “PUA community” whose teachings are sound. They don’t teach how to dress like a clown, trick women and exploit their “emotional systems”. They teach how to be an authentic man, who is comfortable in his own skin, can stand his grounds and make assertive decisions in life. The “PUA community” is not black and white, and comes with plenty shades of gray. It just so happened that the most publicized section of the community happened to be the toxic and character eroding one.
…
2) I keep on going back and forth how I view pick up routines and lines. Once again it’s not so black and white to me. They are neither good nor evil. They have their place. I think too many people get too hung up on them, blow their importance out of proportion and start identifying with the methods.
The best analogy for “routines/methods” that I can think of comes from martial arts. I’ve been taking martial arts classes (Aikido) for about 4 months. The main chunk of my training has consisted of memorized moves. Forms of movement that are planned out step for step in great detail. And yet ask any of the black belts and they will tell you, the moves you learn and memorize will NEVER come up in a real encounter. Shoe-horning “routines” into a real fight is a recipe for disaster. So why bother? Well you still learn a lot from memorized moves. They are a useful learning tool.
A few memorized routines can be handy. It’s helpful to say the same thing over and over again, while playing around with your tone of voice, changing the rate of pausing, focusing on eye contact, observing your body language and inner psychological comfort. Notice that all the “benefits” I listed from a routine, bring the focus back to yourself. They should help you grow and figure out a thing or two. Their intention is not to trick a woman or base your personality off them.
That’s my two “pick up” cents.
Sandra,,,,I have seen players get married…….they get smitten, at the end of it all…..
Hi Curious,
Great point, and I think you have it right.
If she is feeling down and you want to connect with her, then I woould absolutely go to where she is emotionally, but dont take her down further. She is not looking for an answer from you nor do you want to be her therapist. Instead, understand where she is at emotionally, connect with her there by sharing something of yourself with that emotional feeling then guide the conversation to a happier place, maybe how your own story eventually gave you inspiration or howm you learnt from the experience. If you take the negative and then finsh with a positive in order for her to respond and not break rapport she will have to go positive aswell and now you are both feeling better.
When in an interation you want to have contrast. You dont want to be positive all the time example. “Hi, Im feeling great today, I woke up this moring knowing to day was going to be great, I love life, everything always works out for me, I think i just won the lottery” and so on….When I speak with someone like this i think two things. 1. I wonder what nut house he escaped from or 2. Wheres the nearest exit?
You want to be real and have contrast in your language. Be positive then negative, then positive again. Always finish on a positive, that way the reponse will be one of positivity. for example – I woke up this morning feeling great then I walked into my recently refurbished lounge where the builders are still at work and I stepped on a nail that went through my big toe, I was in so much pain for about 10 minutes. But at least my girl came to my rescue and we ended up taking the day off work and eat
eating pancakes all day whilst watching the latest DVDs. Your now in a light hearted place where she will naturally want to be in and respond accordingly in line with that.
LETS HAVE SOME FUN…lets go out right now and find 3 different people, establish where they are emotionally and then guide them to a better place…if their in a great place, take them higher…there are no boundaries only the boundaries you set…
Get out there and get back to me…..Adam.
Hi Adam,
I get your point… I will try out the things you said here…
Thanks.
Women are a hobby.
That’s why there are so many divorces.
PUA is wrong, I used to be more attractive to girls when I was naive and unsecure but I was 100% myself.. no rules determining what or what not should… I take some useful tips and information but following a script someone wrote will only make you more beta, not alpha.