Age Greater Bar or Real Age? By David Wygant
How was everyones weekend?
I had the opportunity to work with a great guy from Scottsdale. I am off to NYC on Friday for a bootcamp as well as some one on one coaching.
I think todays post will really hit home for a lot of men and women especially after the weekend.
Which number is greater: your age, or the amount of women or men that you’ve met in a bar?
Think about this for a second. Think about the number of great women or men that you’ve actually met in a bar – or a nightclub, or a restaurant. Write it down.
Now take a look at your age – which number is higher? Usually your age is higher than the number of great men or women you’ve met in a bar.
It’s funny – I was with a client the other day, and we were talking, and he kept saying to me over and over again, “man, I just hate going to bars. I can’t stand going to bars. I really want to go just do something else.”
And I said to him, “how many women over the last year do you think you’ve actually met in a bar?” He looked at me, and said, “I’ve met one.” I said, “so do you average one per year?” and he said, “yeah, probably one per year.”
He’s 40 years old, and I asked him how many years he’s been going to bars. He said probably since he was 18, and I said, “so basically in 22 years you’ve met 22 women, and you’re 40 years old?” I don’t like that ratio. I think that number is pretty ridiculous.
Think about it – how many people have you actually met in a bar? If that number is greater than your age, then you should continue to go to bars. But if that number is less than your age, then I think you need to reconsider what you are doing on Friday and Saturday nights.
As we get older, our age will always increase. But to balance the scales of life, if the number of the women that you’ve met in a bar is not greater than your age, then you are just wasting time and wasting years.
Hmm… interesting point David. I’ll have to think about this one.
I recommend salsa dancing
And whole foods of course:)
Taras
Lets challenge your mind.
What do you need to think of?
How have you done in bars?
You are at the bar age.
David,
I agree. I cannot recall the last time I’ve met someone at the bar, I think for one I just don’t look approachable (because I don’t go to the bar to met anyone) and I have not had much luck when I did meet someone at the bar.
I think that at where I am in my life, bars and meeting is for fun.
My ratio:
age 25
number of INTERESTING girls I met in a bar for the past year –
few but less than five…
I mean, its fun going out to bars but with friends and with no intentions to pick some girl up. If we have fun and have a good energy around us people come over and are curious
Great post David but where is the challenge??
Slava
The challenge is to get you out of the bars if the ratio above proves correct.
it is all about getting you to stop what does not work and think outside the box!
I agree. Bars are not the place to meet women, or men for that matter. First of all, everyone is drunk. What is so interesting about meeting a drunken person? I guess if you want to show off to your friends how many numbers you have, that’s one thing, but why? I could just see it now. “Hey, Bob, look! I’ve got 10 phone numbers from ten drunken girls. I’m a stud!”
Second, especially if there is a band playing or other kinds of loud music, the music is too loud for a conversation. I was out at a country club to see a band play. I tried to make conversation with all the people around me of course, but it wasn’t easy. I saw a cute lady that night, and I decided to talk to her. (I had no intentions of getting lucky with her. It was just talk.) So anyway, we managed to talk a little bit. It turned out she was from out of town, and she didn’t like country. (Yes, she was probably dragged there by her friends because she was with them, and she didn’t really seem like she was having a good time.) I also noticed that she did not have one of those run-of-the-mill beers in her hand, which was nice. After that, we couldn’t talk that much since the band was so loud, but it was alright though for what is was. The point of all this is that it is just too loud in bars and clubs to have a conversation with people so how can you possibly connect with someone in that environment? (Ladies, if you’re trying to keep the weird guys at bay in the bars and clubs, go to one with a really loud band! It will make it harder for them to mess with you.) Therefore, if you’re going to meet someone, try meeting them before you get in the bar or club like David mentions on his website. It’s much easier to to talk before you get in than after you get in. (That’s coming from the little experience that I have.)
Dave
P.S. The band was pretty good, by the way, but they might have sounded better if they weren’t as loud.
Dave
This is the line of the day.
Hey, Bob, look! I’ve got 10 phone numbers from ten drunken girls. I’m a stud!”
Thanks for that and this is so true….drunk girls have no idea what you said to them,
What i used to tell a drunk girl in a bar was this.
Hey i am going to all you tuesday so make sure that you are nice and hammered when i call so we can pick up where we left off!!
I never posted before, but I just want to add a comment. Although, our age is much higher then the number of men or women we have met in the bar it is because we didn’t go to bars when we were under 18. So, if you want to get the correct Bar age then you should at least subtract 18. Other then, that great post David.
Erik
some of us were very good at changing our drivers age and started in bars at 16:)
David,
I think we have to completely rethink the way human mating works – in our heads. Everyone thinks that it’s bars and clubs where all the magic happens – and it *can* be magical, but statistically that’s just not true. People tend to NOT meet their partners in clubs or bars but pretty much every where else, mostly in environments where they meet without the intent to mate for longer periods (associations, jobs, university, Amnesty International, private parties, etc…). I don’t really understand how and why that misconception came about.
That said, I love clubs, I (now) love meeting strangers in lounge areas, and, going out to a club once a week for about three, four hours, I’m meeting and chatting (seriously) with an average of 1.5 women per visit. The problem is not meeting women in a club, the problem is meeting great women in a club – so the question is: is the club the appropriate target area? Depends on what the club is like, and what you’re looking for, of course. So if the your criteria for greatness are met in a club, a club would be perfect. Problem, of course, is – this is rarely the case. That said, of all the women I chatted with in clubs in the first six months of 2008, I’ve only really been attracted and followed up with 6 women.
In a way, the signal to noise ratio is lower in a club than in other environments where people are pre-screened for more than musical taste, appearance, or money. That, however, is partly offset by the fact that it’s relatively easy to “manually” screen more “targets” than is likely possible in those other environments: It’s relatively easy to approach where it’s clear that people are ready to be approached… Clubgame is a little like speeddating without numbers, isn’t it?
Bars and clubs are great as long as you don’t make them your primary method of meeting someone for romantic purposes.
Let’s be honest here. Most people meet their girlfriend or boyfriend through social circles or through professional/religious/sport affiliations.
Once in a while, bars and clubs are great to mess with people… or mess around with ;p
Jm,
You met 6 women in 6 months at clubs out of how many visits and women total?
What is your hit ratio compared to the time that you are in there?
We are all about quality women and not necessarily quantity… as well as time management.
As long as you are having fun and enjoying yourself, that is all that matters!!
Finding places to meet women and having fun is the key.
Life is about participating and having a blast.
I dont like clubs….not my thing but we each need to find our place and our thing.
Great post by the way and thanks for posting!
Ok David, I like a challenge
As far as bars go, I think I’m fairly decent. I’m 21 right now, so I’ve only been going to those places for a little under a year, but I still feel they’re worth coming back to.
How have I personally done in bars? Well, I’ve met at least two great girls thus far, one of which I still talk to, and just last weekend I got a number at the Standard lounge.
In my own humble opinion, bars may not necessarily be the problem. It’s really the logistics of the situation. First off, those places are usually a meatmarket, so it takes more “work” to get a girl to commit to a conversation. Girls are hit on a lot in that environment, so they eventually develop defense mechanisms because of how badly other guys have approached them in the past. Plus, there are always issues concerning cockblocking friends, drunk chicks that aren’t worth the effort, etc.
But what I think it really comes down to is whether or not you enjoy being there. Naturally, people who don’t like their surroundings won’t have much to talk about and they’ll look for reasons of why it sucks. If that’s the case, then they probably are way better off going somewhere else.
On the other hand, a good bar will also have more women and it’s often easier to approach them directly, so it’s just a matter of preference of what you like to do.
Anyways, that’s my two cents. What do you think?
Thanks David,
I think quality and time management are the right angle to look at things
. For the time being I’m enjoying myself in clubs – whether or not I talk to girls, but it usually adds to the pleasure. I’m a “dopamine junkey” I guess… lol
OK, for the math part – January doesn’t count, I was backpacking in NZ and club/game among backpackers (up to 40y or so) is like shooting fish in a barrel as everyone’s on holiday. Since then, I’d say, when I’m not in a club with a date, I’m interacting with 1-2 women/sets per visit, which would add up to 6-8 women I meet there every month. Timewise, that would equal about 20 hours total, which would bring my “female temporal investment ratio” (TM, LOL) for clubgame to about 1/2.5hrs per every initial interaction and to about 1/20hrs for a woman I’m interested in following up.
Taras
Good to see that you like a challenge because your mindset was and still is at times very PUA like.
You have met 2 girls in how long of a time period?
What about other places?
Where else have you gone to meet women?
Everytime you are in bar do you approach and speak to women and have fun?
Its not about the numbers its about enjoying yourself in any enviroment you find yourself in.
We don’t count numbers we are more about building real confidence and having fun!
Jm
as long as you are having fun that is all that matters. i am really busy and do not have a lot of free time so when i have free time i enjoy spending it doing things that i love.
when i do things that i really love i will meet and attract women naturally in those places.
as for your backpacking trip…now that sounds great!!!
that is something i would do and i am sure you have amazing stories
I started going “clubbing” at age 15. I had a fake ID that said I was 18. There used to be a lot of 18+ clubs in SF. I had NO problem meeting guys in clubs and bars because I wore skimpy, slutty outfits, was drunk or at least highly buzzed, danced in cages or on the stage, danced extremely erotically and even made out with my hot best (girl)friend and absolutely made a spectacle of myself. What a shock that I met LOTS of guys!
What type of guys did I meet? NOT the kind I would want to meet now. I was young and naive. I didn’t know myself or what I really wanted in a mate. I mostly met guys that were only interested in banging me and it’s because of the way I portrayed myself. I went to clubs to find a boyfriend but I usually just found a hot guy I didn’t like at all to go home with or no one at all.
There was this one guy I met at a club named Chad. He and I hit it off one night but I could see that he was kind of cocky and I didn’t like that about him. We hooked up and then I ran into him again a week later. We hadn’t exchanged numbers so I wasn’t blown off by him but I did feel somewhat awkward. Somehow we ended up together at the end of the night. This time I wasn’t as drunk and realized I really didn’t like him at all although I was extremely physically attracted to him. So I decided to be hook up with him and try to get him to not talk so he wouldn’t annoy me. This went on for months. I couldn’t stand him yet if there wasn’t anyone else around I’d rather go home with him than with noone. We did have pretty hot sex. I guess it was a love hate relationship. I gradually got more and more disgusted with him and began to be mean to him. I remember he came back with me to my place and his car was a 30 minute drive away. He said he wouldn’t be able to get a ride til 11 am I said that was fine but he’d have to sleep on the couch. Right after we had sex he started being himself and I kicked him out. I think this was the last time we hooked up. Anyway, sorry for going on and on. I had forgot about him and how pathetic I was. I am such a different person now. I would NEVER hook up with someone that is great looking with a horrible attitude or personality. It makes them extremely unattractive to me.
I think the bar/club scene is good for hookups, but not really an ideal place to meet quality people. Of course awesome people do go to clubs once and a while. I did meet my 1st serious boyfriend at a club, so it is possible to meet a quality person anywhere. I think most people are either out with their friends to have fun without the objective of meeting someone or they are on the prowl to get laid. You can’t hear each other to have any sort of meaningful conversation, alcohol is involved, you can’t sit down unless you have bottle service and there’s usually other people cockblocking. I dread clubs. I do like going to lounges every now and then but I’m not going there to try to meet someone.
David,
“that is something i would do and i am sure you have amazing stories”
LOL, I have indeed. But there’s an old NZ saying… “what happens in Barrytown stays in Barrytown”
Alright David,
I think I see your point and the funny thing is that I actually do agree with much of what you said. Enjoying yourself in any enviroment is definetly more important than how many people you actually approach. No question there.
And for the record, I have also talked to lots of great people at schools, malls, book stores, coffee houses, house parties, county fairs, rock concerts, raves, supermarkets, clothing shops, outdoor food markets, amongst other places.
Even still, regardless of my own personal statistics, I just think bars are fun
i’m not old enough to go to the bars yet, so don’t ruin my fantasies yet david! i’d like to be the judge for that one myself!
Reason why I hate clubs :
Joel : Hey I like your shoes where did you get them?
Girl : You like my boobs? Ew go away!
Joel : No I SAID SHOES!
Girl : What?
Joel : SHOES!
Girl : What about shoes?
Joel : ……… What’d you say?
Girl : I can’t hear you?
At least you can maybe make fun of that whole situation. I once had a conversation with a girl punching texts into one anothers phones because the music was too loud. Was quite funny. But that was yes, one of the very few funny – quality moments in a club interacting with a woman.
Age : 26, my bar/club count must be something like 2 quality follow ups. I find house/social parties where there’s a common ground eg: someone’s birthday a lot easier.
ahh… haha
So glad i found this low key bar, where the music actually
is low enough to talk over. And they have great beer. Btw, getting to know
the manger and bartenders help when you`re at a place.
The place i go to, the manger does all the work for me, running around telling all the girls how cool i am.
Never told him to do it, but i cant complain
But i get your point, a lot of people you meet at bars are boring, but then
again, most of my friends are people i met when i was out, and no my friends arent boring, those where the cool ones. its all about
being social.
I know you`re wondering how do i get to know the manger and
bartenders??
Here is what you do, next time you`re out, go out alone and early, at least
before the crowds get there. When you enter a venue (btw this works every where, not just bars ) Walk straight up to the bar, and reach your
arm over the bar, as to shake the bartenders hand. He/ she is socially programmed to do the same, then just go hey, how`s it going.
Often they will actually think they know you haha. Then just keep the convo going a bit, ask about the place. Whatever just be casual and social.
Finsih your beer, and repeat at the next place your at.
Keep going to the same places for a few weeks, and your in.
Doesnt get any easier
Joely, great conversation snippet…so true!
loud bars/clubs…not the best place in the world to talk and connect.
I think happy hours are fun though, its almost summer here in the Bay and there’s a ton of people looking to socialize from 7pm to 10pm later during the week.
I think it necessary to distinguish between ‘bars’ and clubs’.
To me, a bar is a more informal type place, for example a pub, or a happy hour at just about any type of establishment. I’ve met some great people, and great women, in what I think of as pubs. I’ve hooked up plenty of times, definitely more than my age (47). I actually prefer this type of venue to many of the others David mentions, including online dating, which I think is nothing but a scam. Part of this is also that I’m not looking for a LTR (Marriage is dead and LTRs are circling the drain IMO) so that has to be factored into the equation.
OTOH, in a ‘club’ or nightclub, I agree, the atmosphere is not conducive. As pointed out by some of the others, the music is too loud and everybody is drunk. You have to worry if you will get past the velvet rope. You pay 9 bucks for a beer.
But more important than the venue is your attitude. If you are open and friendly, but not needy or desperate, just looking to have fun and enjoy yourself and don’t put any pressure yourself, you are more likely to meet great people regardless of where you happen to be. As long as you enjoy the pertinent venue/activity.
Great point David! However I would have to say I go to the bars to have drinks and socialize with friends. I have never gone with the intentions to meet anyone, at least anyone worthwhile.
It’s hard because I enjoy relaxing with a martini in hand, catching up with my girlfriends and people watching. But you’re right, this is no place to meet anyone so I continue my journey as a single woman…who likes martinis.
Bars are a great place for sure. You need two things a. pick the right bar and b.feel confident about being outgoing. The rest always takes care of itself. Davids methods are the gold standard as far as I am concerned, although he casts his shadow of doom on bars. Its makes sense for beginners cuz everything is results based. If you want to pick women up in bars you have to know how to be interesting. If she is a cool girl she will give you everything you need to work with. Most importantly have goals not expectations.
Thorbjoern
I used to be a bartender and the advice you gave is great. I also used to own a bar and always told my bartenders to treat the regulars with a ton of respect and be their friend.
I used to think I hated bars and clubs and came up with all kinds of reasons why it never worked for me (namely the loud music). But when I stopped to think about it, each one was just an excuse for the fact that I was afraid to dance, or find some other way of approaching people that actually worked.
I haven’t figured it all out yet, but what I do know is that you can meet people just about anywhere, and it’s all about your attitude and willingness to put yourself outside your comfort zone – because that is where you learn the most.
I’ve met my fair share of women in bars… although I’ve got to admit that in general… it was through other friends that were there… and not on “cold” approach
So here’s my view on “da bar”:
1. Most people have unrealistic expectations by going to the bar… thinking that everyone goes so that they can hook up… which COULD be true… but you’ve got to get into the “inner circle” to make that happen most of the time.
2. But, on the other hand… if you go to the bar/club and are introduced to someone by a friend that knows them… you’ve bypassed the threshold of “weirdness” (for lack of a better term)… and can focus on having FUN… and creating an experience.
Interesting formula David. Until I was about 31 and stopped going, I’d probably met twice as many women in bars as my age, if not more. I probaly met four or five a month. Since then, few places can top Borders Books or Whole Foods.
The exception to this rule is when I’m outside my own city- I play the numbers game and go where women are plentiful and single- nightclubs.
I have found women to be approachable at “Jazz” bars/lounges.
There are “Sierra” singles hikes at Griffith Park on tuesday, wednesday and thursday evenings.
People walk around the Rose Bowl parking lot for exercise, almost every evening.
Man, what an entirely different perspective from the ‘going to the bar to practice game’. A few years out from the release of The Game, I wonder how rife it is with weekend after weekend guys trying the jealous girlfriend routine on ’sets’???
Hi everybody I’m Stefano from Italy. My situation is that: i live in a small (70000 people) town, with a lot of young guys from all agest. For some reasons (that’s story now) I have really few options outside the bar and live music clubs for meeting women: my friends are almost married or getting married, others are becoming selfish players who meets 2-4 women a week (they’re natural, but fucking selfish… no help non friends
). Other guy friends are good but over-the-edge nice guy. So, where do I get to meet women? Gym, clubs and bars. I don’t have any friend who throw a party with women, it’s a pretty closed ANTI-social circle! In my business, no women, and my colleagues are all married (the younger) and almost over 40, so that’s another closed door. I can’t leave the business because it’s the family business (and can bring up some billions of $)… so I can clearly testify you that money, great cars, and a great house, are nothing if you don’t get the right thing.
So, what’s left for me? nothing more that clubs and bars.
I think that the right thing to do in that context, is not to pick up girls for dates: just go out, approach group of women, just for fun and meet people just to build up a new sociar circle. As someone posted before, being introduced to a group of friends, by someone who’s inside of it, it’s the best thing you can do. But you can create new friendships, organize some get-toghether and only from this the club/bar scene can be useful. Otherwise, I’ll prefer to buy me a beer and drink it all alone while chatting on line
I think you have a much better shot if you go somewhere that you are able to stand out. As an example, I’m a fairly good singer.. so I go to the local karaoke bar frequently. I meet someone new almost every time I go. If you’re a great dancer, then a club would be better. If you have a great personality, maybe smaller bars without loud music. Not unlike most other things in life, it just takes some effort.
Why on earth would I want to go to a bar? I equate Bars/Taverns with riff-raff, drunks, and the lower social elements of society. To many showoff’s, liar’s, users, and unscrupulous people. Men on the hunt in Bars, deserve what they find. Nothing of any value. Women on the hunt in Bars, deserve the stupid, boring men they encounter.
I do not smoke, drink, do drugs or enjoy ear deafening garage bands trying to act like they a super stars..
I consider the atmospheres in bars on weekends, an environmental hazard to life.
Anyone who is serious about finding someone who is suitable to date, should start where intelligent, thoughtful, responsible people socially gather. Bars, Taverns, Clubs usually are not it!
Sorry gang…the bar scene is the bottom of the barrel.
riff-raff? lower social elements of society? you sounds like a lot of fun renee – want to date?? Responsible to who or what exactly? Being a societal sheep perhaps? As the saying goes, “heaven for the weather, hell for the conversation”.
Interested in what you meant with the Border Books & Whole Foods comment Lee. Not sure if there is a London equivalent …
Reminds me of Yogi’s quote, “No one goes there any more. It’s too crowded”. Bars and Clubs are all right but only if they are not packed with drunks. That’s no way to meet women.
Great Post. Thanks