Lover Or Relationship?
April 5, 2009 
38 Comments
What is the difference between a lover and a boyfriend? You know a lot of women email me all the time asking me what the “rules” are in the context of having a lover versus a boyfriend.
They ask me things like this: “David, I don’t understand what I’m allowed to share with a man. I’m a sexual being. I really just want to go there and enjoy myself and find a lover, but what can I talk about with my lover in bed? Are we just talking about sex? Are we just talking about dirty texting each other? Are we just talking about the things we want? Sometimes I just want to share with my lover my day, or I want to share with my lover something that’s going on in my life.”
Here’s the difference between a lover and a relationship. I consider a lover to be somebody with whom you can get together to have fun. You get to share secrets with each other. You get to have a great time in bed. You share a wonderful evening together and experience what it’s like having this temporary relationship.
It’s just a relationship that temporarily satisfies you that night. When you and your lover leave the bed and you both go to work the next day, however, that conversation does not go further.
That conversation goes further in a relationship, because that’s what a relationship is all about. When you’re confessing things in bed in a relationship, you almost always the very next day want to send an email or have another conversation.
You want to take the conversation further, recap the prior night’s conversation or take that conversation to the next level. A relationship involves exposing the depth of who you are as a person.
You’re exposing that depth, and you’re going deeper and deeper into that relationship. You’re exploring each other more and more. So those confessions in the middle of the night when you’re in bed lead to more stimulating conversations the next day and lead to more personal discovery.
So when you find a lover, go ahead and confess away and talk about whatever you want. If you don’t want your lover to be a relationship, though, then don’t carry those conversations into the next day, because those kind of confessions are only for people with whom you want to have a relationship.
That’s the biggest difference. Trust your lover, and grow with your relationship.
David, so lets say that I met someone and we get along great. Then after a couple of weeks we start sleeping together, sex is good, and things in the relationship heat up a bit. So we date and that goes on for sometime say 6 months. ILY are thrown in and hints of a lasting relationship is mentioned by him….Then and this has happened several times with different men he breaks up with me they have used multiple reasons, ILY but I’m not IN love with you, he doesn’t think I’m the right girl for him, I didn’t curl his toes as much as he thinks a wife should… yada yada, whatever the excuse could be… So my questions is How can I tell the difference when a man is IN love or he is just in my pants? I could say well I’ll just keep dating multiple men and keep the sex out of the relationship but then that’s counterproductive. I don’t enjoy sleeping with multiple men at the same time. Well wait now I haven’t tried that but I don’t think I’d like it at all. Maybe I date 3 sleep with only one and see where the other two relationships go? To me sex is part of being IN love with someone you could share the rest of your life with..So what is the right balance to make sure I have the real “love” thing going on….?
Thanks so much Dave… love your blog.
Wow… So true…. And exactly what I’m dealing with…
I’ve had two lovers over the past few months and I can sense they both are trying to carry the conversations on, and over into the next day and connect on a deeper level.
Thanks for the write-up David! Very relevant for me indeed! I’ll be able to use this information to control how far these connections go… Thanks!
Okay, before DantheOriginal calls me out for jumping the gun again (I know, I know, just go get laid and it will all be better), I think this is what I am looking for. I want to have meaningful, intimate, but dramatically short relationships for a while. How do you approach this subject with someone you are dating?
I think my past led me to this need. I am not relationship material yet but I don’t want to keep operating alone all the time. I feel I will be ready in the future but for now, this is what interests me.
Anyone else have any thoughts?
It’s all been pretty much one night stands, and occasional follow ups when you meet them in subsequent nights out, but I’m pretty much ok with that. I don’t quite know yet when I’m going to find that ‘someone special’, but it can take all the time in the world, because the journeys great fun!!
Sounds like good solid advice right there.
Doesn’t this go hand in hand with not having too high expectations and just take things one day at a time. Enjoy the moment and let things develop naturally.
I any relationship I have ever been in, I never went into over thinking what could happen. It’s out of my control if it’s meant to happen it will do so by itself.
Just enjoy every step. Even what you think would only be a fun fling/on night stand can turn into something. Even old friends you would never have thought you would be involved with, suddenly something happens and you start falling for them.
If it feels right it will naturally move ahead to a more intense level of connection. If not then back off not a big ordeal.
Mike
It would not be DTO’s day if he did not blast out one of us…Sweetheart when you meet someone and the time is right you will know when just relax…Rome was not built in a day….You know what my theory when I am damn good and ready to have a man that is when I will be blogging all over David’s site no matter what the subject is…But right now I want to just take it one day at a time and let things come to me naturally…Actually Mike you and I share something in common I have not slept with a guy in five years yes five years just hang in there….
Blog: Today when it comes to me and a relationship I don’t want to rush into something that I am not ready for…It would be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire…in order for two people to make love they have to want the desire to do such if you rush into the bedroom and not see that wave about to hit then you might as well count it as a lose and go on to the next person. When a man and woman make love most women want the bonding to continue but the man may not have that on his mind a long term commitment things take time and time is of the essence….
>>>>>i want to have meaningful, intimate, but dramatically short relationships for a while.
yes you want to get laid without all the drama, that’s cool bro:-)
>>>>>Just enjoy every step.
You should listen to Marina…you are way overthinking Mike!
>>>>>Rome was not built in a day
Love it when SH gets deep:-)
>>>>…and ready to have a man that is when I will be blogging all over David’s site no matter what the subject is…
Oh shit!
>>>>>Actually Mike you and I share something in common I have not slept with a guy in five years yes five years just hang in there….
I have more than a million frequent flyer miles and would love to spend some and get Mike to TN! But, I am not sure, after 5 years with SH his safety may not be guaranteed:-) And who knows, it may be love at first sight:-)
Got my Beijing Lonely Planet travel guide and countdown is on
This might be a bit cynical for the direction of this blog, but I feel a major piece of the puzzle is being ignored.
When two people are sleeping together, and one or both have the specific intention to stop the sex from turning into a relationship, there is usually a major reason. Usually, the other party has a major flaw in their looks or personality, disqualifying them from a potential relationship. A red flag to look out for is how affectionate the other person is in private as compared to when in public. If they are warm and affectionate while hidden from the outside world, but act disinterested in public, they may be hiding something. Namely your “relationship,” whatever form it takes.
There may be other factors, like an existing relationship or pre-existing mental/emotional issues, but generally healthy people not in a relationship who have the time and wants one will take the opportunity should a good opportunity present itself.
So it could be said that in most cases, the difference between a boyfriend/girlfriend and a lover is that a boyfriend/girlfriend is valued highly, and a lover generally is not.
So, if you are sleeping with someone and specifically not going to be in a relationship with them, consider the possibility that you may really just be stroking yourself in a different and unhealthy way. If you are sleeping with someone you want to be in a relationship with and it isn’t progressing in the direction you want, consider that you may be being stroked.
It is possible that both parties just want healthy intimacy without the confines of a relationship, but in my experience (which is a reasonable amount), the cost of just sleeping with someone for the act itself is rarely worth the cost. At least one party will hope for a lasting relationship that will never materialize. So be careful, and make sure you are taking care of yourself and potential partners by thinking the situation through to the end. Preferably before acting…
P.S. – I generally do not recommend taking relationship advice from someone who has not had any relationship experience in 5 years (Sandra).
Lover versus BF/GF aka Relationship? Isn’t the only real difference between the two a level of commitment – or the lack thereof? I would certainly hope that at some point one is having sex with their partner. Why wouldn’t your partner also be your lover? I can understand a lover not being relationship material but filling a need, no pun intended. But if there is a repeat performance, isn’t that a relationship of sorts, albeit a sexual one?
Isn’t the concept of “friends with benefits” an understanding between friends – casual or otherwise – that they already know that they aren’t suited to meet each other’s long term goals but they do share some things on an intellectual or emotional level and that it may include sex when both are available and needed by the other? And there is usually an implicit, if not explicit, understanding that one will not rat the other out – it is a relationship of convenience with opt-in/opt-out clauses.
Mike – Have you ever considered advertising for a short-term relationship with no sex involved? Not necessarily an ad but perhaps among your social circle? Just say that you’re not looking for a long term relationship but you’re trying to improve your social skills by dating or hanging out with as many women as possible with all of the boundaries defined at the start? You might actually get a lot of takers on that offer – especially through people who already know you.
Lots of us older folks talk to people that we know casually and when we find out what their passion is, we ask them if they would share that with us in a slightly more structured setting. I love exploring new things but I prefer a somewhat knowledgeable guide in the beginning. I used to the one sought out for my knowledge but this blog has changed that as I do more of the asking now. My work friends give me home improvement tips and I can now ask strangers in the Home Depot (other than the people who work there) questions without being embarrassed.
One of the guys at work is into wood-working and he has been sharing suggestions with me for some of my home projects. Now when I go into that “guy” territory of power tools and supplies in a specialty store, I have less difficulty navigating and actually talking to total strangers while browsing. Another is into restoring old cars and I asked if he would be interested in going with me to a regional museum with hundreds of them. He’s all excited about talking to anyone about his passion and going somewhere he likes without it being another guy! And I won’t feel so lost when I go again alone or with a total stranger. Some of us like the concept of being a little better armed before we truly do something all alone….
Dan, you are a funny bastard!:-)
Actually, I wouldn’t disagree with anything Sandra said. Mike, you’ve got some good advice to work with from a number of people here today. My advice (which I think I’ve given before) would be to find a good bar/club, have a few drinks and loosen up a bit. Worked for me! I don’t get drunk too often these days though, as the women here take advantage of me when I’m in that state.:-)
Dan
Can I have some miles too, I want to back home to Spain an see my family.:)
Now, what is it about the name Dan and having a souther heritage….Every Dan The Man I have ever meet overhere sounds just like out own DTO.
Be a good boy Dan have a great trip to China, but your BS cheating and trying to justify it is awful.
I am confused ?
For the future this is what I am looking for , what is this kind of connection called.
An intense 1 week relationship with a 3 weeks breaks.. then back aging a week here and there…but it has to be monogamous..I need my alone time, I really don’t want to have someone around 24/7.
Down the road I want to have someone you can rely on 100%, I just don’t want to live with him, I enjoy being by myself now and having the time to just focus on my kids and myself.
Seems like an ideal relationship to me.
Alright get back to work Marina…
Thank you everyone for the advice today.
K, I already do that way too much but it is a great idea. I have no problem socialising with women, either alone or in a larger group settings.
Dan, I am an over-thinker by nature and it is part of who I am. It’s what lets me get paid for using my increduble imgination.
Peter, I have lots of problems with alchohol. It doesn’t make me a happy guy, it makes me a violent guy. But a good offer still.
I guess my biggest thing now is that because I have no clue how sex plays out in the mind or in the body, I put a lot of factors into it that might not exist. I guess I assume that every women is looking at me like I am the next year or two year guy that might lead to long term. I am not comfortable with that until I work on the short term first, and that includes intimacy. I am really not that bad at attracting women and creating a lot of the thinga David talks about in his blogs and in his tapes. I just freeze up and associate things like sex with marriage.
Thanks for all the ideas.
Mike, associating sex with marriage would be a deal breaker for me too!:-) Obviously that’s looking a bit too far ahead though – just focus on having fun in the moment. It sounds like you’re not far off getting where you want to be – you just have to get out of your head for a while, if you know what I mean.
Understood on booze – best to leave that alone if it makes you violent. Luckily I don’t have that reaction.
I think this again relates to the issue of being honest and up front with people. As long as you have an open line of communication about what the relationship is, then each person can decide if that is for them or not.
a.movie–I think it’s great that your honest with yourself and what you want…just let the women know that. It really does start with you and where you are at with things. If that’s not the kind of relationship the woman wants, then it won’t work for her. Definitely like others were saying just go with the flow, be honest and pay attention to your feelings and rest should fall in place.
Mrs Want to Know & Drew –
As soon as you know that he is the one you’d like to have a relationship with you may need to alter your course a little here.
This is simply a fact that when a guy decided into a sexual r’ship with a woman he may not necessarily want or expect it to change into a bf/gf r’ship especially if the intention is not communicated earlier on…
Now if that is the case, you may want to change it around a little…
Get him to chase you!
This also means a little self control on your part and not sleep with him until you are sure that he also has the same intention in bringing the r’ship to the next level of commitment…
As soon as you have made sure that you may want to give this r’ship a go you may want to mention it to him that you have decided to stop sleeping with him and that you are now in a different phase and only sleep with someone who is in a commited r’ship with you…this is when you start to amp up your seduction persona so to speak…dress sexy and not trampy when going out on dates/outings with him…flirt with other guys in front of him and see how he react…flirt with him constantly…tease and seduce him with sexy text msg late at nite (and say ‘NO’ when he tells you that he wants to come over)
This is when you’d know for sure if he is with you because he is looking to being in a r’ship with you or just want to get into your pants with no further obligations…
You have AMPLE AMMO and POWER to seduce…use it to your advantage…
Now let me just say this…if you use it just for the sake of teasing a guy then SHAME ON YOU (David ban them form here once and for all…we don’t appreciate fakers and users here)…the above advise is to help a genuine soul who is truly looking and weeding out the fake/a**holes from the genuine…
Fleance, if a girl did this to me, I would leave her in a heartbeat. I don’t want to feel like I have to earn a relationship. I feel like it should happen naturally. And if you don’t want to look your best, then that is your decision, not the penis’s.
The seduction is the easy part. By far the easy part. For men and women. Men use it for sex. Women use it for relationships. I want to find the balance. I don’t mind being committed to one person at a time. But I guess my main question is how do you know when it is the right time to tell someone that you are not looking for long term? Do have to start every date with that? I don’t mind, but I’m sure its going to lead to quite a few awkward moments as they decide whether or not I’m an asshole. I want to commit on a deep, emotional level, but I also want to end it when I think it is right, and right now after an epic dry run, it is probably going to be for a month or two at a time if not less.
Case in point. I have a friend who uses a list. He has things which he considers deal breakers, but you can’t always find these things out right away. Sometimes it does take a little getting to know you time to see what direction it is heading in. I’ve always felt guilty about just wanting to test drive the car not knowing if I want to buy it and the popular consensus in conservative America is that once you drive it you should buy it. I don’t know how good sex is, period. I don’t want to be surprised with a limp fish any more than a woman wants to be surprised with a limp dick. But of course, I jump ahead and over think things.
Fleance, you need to ban yourself from this site because what you are doing is just as fake as the girls who do it for kicks, imho. You can’t just “sex it up” to get a guy to commit. That is wrong. Just like guys shouldn’t pour on the charm just to get you to open up the middle.
Can we have the best of both worlds? I want a lover/boyfriend! Yes, please!
“As soon as you know that he is the one you’d like to have a relationship with you may need to alter your course a little here.”
The real answer is to discuss your feelings with him but in America this is harder to do because everyone is so damned caught up in not being the one who gets hurt, and I use myself as an example. Just because you decide to start dressing more attractive doesn’t mean I’m going to go running to you. And if you flirt with another guy on purpose in front of me to get me jealous, I wouldn’t even give you cab fare home. You are not showing respect for the relationship you are looking for. But I’m different than most guys, so I’m sure your plan will work. But the relastionship you create will be like Dan’s. You will wake up months or years later, asking yourself why the heck did I get involved for so long with this person.
“As soon as you know that he is the one you’d like to have a relationship with you may need to alter your course a little here.”
Okay, what is the opposite to this statement? I don’t know right away, but I have strong feelings towards short term romances here. When it seems to dissipate, do I have to stop showering and start chewing with my mouth open to get the relationship to stop or do I just come clean and tell you right then? I could bust out the black socks, cargo shorts, and birkenstocks every time we are in public, that would get you to change your mind about me.
You just gave me an idea for a romantic comedy. Girl wants more. Guy wants less. Girl tries to hook her guy buy going to outrageous efforts to attract her guy. Guy wants out without feeling guilty and goes the exact opposite, trying everything he can do to repulse her and it turns into an ego battle where the each person realizes that they just needed to be honest with themselves.
To Marina:
>>>>>>Be a good boy Dan have a great trip to China, but your BS cheating and trying to justify it is awful.
Hey, I am not doing it anymore!…We all make mistakes:-)
>>>>>>>Can I have some miles too, I want to back home to Spain an see my family.:)
If you live in the US I can get you to earn enough miles for Europe in 2 months:-) Quick before Citigroup gets nationalized:-)
To mike:
>>>>>>>Peter, I have lots of problems with alchohol. It doesn’t make me a happy guy, it makes me a violent guy. But a good offer still.
Aha, that explains your sporadic outbursts here! Get some addiction related help! That alcohol-violence sequence is a deal breaker for all women!! Addiction is a disease! If you are going to be an addict, might as well go on a marijuana binge, at least it’s organic and all natural:-)
>>>>>>>but I also want to end it when I think it is right…
Dude, who is talking about ending??????For an ending to happen, there must be a beginning, work on that first!!
>>>>>But the relastionship you create will be like Dan’s. You will wake up months or years later, asking yourself why the heck did I get involved for so long with this person.
So Mike you are now becoming an expert on relationships. I think perhaps you and SH can do another stupid reality show like you guys dream up in LA and become “relationship” experts? That would be something!
Fleance, Thanks so much I’m certainly going to try your advise next time I’m in a relationship. The past relationship we started sleeping together way too soon… however later he told me he loved me first and then a few months later I tried to break up with him twice because I didn’t think he wanted a real relationship… and he didn’t want to break up because he did want a real releationship and was interested in something long term… I met his family friends ect. Then, and I don’t know why he became distant… something right there is where he changed his mind. Before that time….is when I should have backed up and stopped sleeping with him and talked with him seriously about where things were going and followed your advise. I don’t think flirting is so bad actually sometimes a man thinks a woman is flirting when she is just being nice to another man. What I’ve done before is bring up in conversation how a salesman, a college aged smart kid, at the shoe store was so nice to me and helped me pick out the perfect shoe. Or how nice a man at the car store was helping pick out a battery… anything it doesn’t take much to perk up a boyfriends interest. I’ve never needed the girls for that. Sorry, it’s true. Anyway enough of that. I’ll take your advise and use it next time. It’s much better advise than hearing…..”I love you But I’m not in love with you.” I hope that never happens again.
After reading all the comments, I think the majority of issues here is that most people don’t know what they want: a relationship or a lover.
I read about… deal-breaker lists… and “baiting” men into chasing women… etc.
The truth is a lot simpler: If you really listen to your heart, you know what you want when you meet a person. We all need to really pay attention to what we have in front of us… and follow that intent, that desire, one step at a time.
a.movie, how do you know sex will lead to marriage? That’s you putting all sorts of expectations on one single act: sex. As many people commented to you, maybe you should just say what you want… learn to express it proudly and confidently to the women you meet.
Also, I feel that whether you get a relationship or a casual lover type of situation depends a lot on what you project. We do attract what we project….
So the question is: what do you project about yourself that makes you fall in one category vs the other?
If you were to look from the other person’s point of view, most feelings come from:
1. I want to have fun
2. I want to feel secure
3. I just want to fuck.
If you appeal to all 3, or at least to 2 out of 3, you’d probably get some form of committed relationship.
If you just have #1 or #3, then you’d get a lover.
Demitris
Oh you sneaky little devil…I have a question for you do you know the ten mistakes that women make with men…Do you know about Natural and Lasting Attraction women vs men…etc…Hey dude I have been down that road a time or two and if you don’t like my advice go and bother someone else on the blog and leave me alone and out of your problems…Oh before I forget tell us about the five f’s the notch on the pistol and the trophies on your shelf…
DTO I have one thing to say:
HA HA HA HA HA I knew you were going to do that
Mike
Hears a song just for you: Tell It Like It is…I heard this from a friend one time and I work with an individual that said be upfront with the person and let them know what kind of relationship you want hey most of us women do it and what makes you any different…Just food for thought.
>>>>> Hey dude I have been down that road a time or two and if you don’t like my advice go and bother someone else on the blog and leave me alone and out of your problems…Oh before I forget tell us about the five f’s the notch on the pistol and the trophies on your shelf…
Sorry to be blunt Sandra, but how many times have you been married? You said above that you haven’t had a sexual relationship for 5 years, so really, why should anyone take your advice on creating lasting attraction? Before you jump at me, I’ll fully admit that I’m no good at that either!:-) I’m pretty good at creating short-term relationships though.:-)
>>>>> be upfront with the person and let them know what kind of relationship you want hey most of us women do it and what makes you any different…
Not really great advice, IMO. Men are very different from women in this regard, and we often don’t know what we want from a relationship right at the start. Ifs better to be a bit more non-committal at the start and only discuss your feelings about what you want from it when you really know. No point in going too heavy too quickly.
Khiem,
I didn’t say sex leads to marriage. Well, I guess I did sort of. Thank you for the advice by the way.
What I’m asking is, when is it appropraite to mention that you are not looking for anything long term? Women seem to have good success with this. So let me ask the women.
Scenario:
1. A guy you are interested in asks you out. You are excited and want to have fun. #1 on Khiems list. So you go out and you have a good date, or you have a good time with whatever you were doing when you met this guy. Okay, you say to yourself, no sex on the first date, this guy is too awesome for that and I don’t want him to think it is easy (just examples).
2. Second date rolls around and you go out again with this guy. He is awesome and a lot of fun to be around. He can make everyone you meet excited to be around him and he draws people in with his energy. Since it is second date, you talk more in depth about who you are as a person, dreams, wants, desires, etc… Things go really well and you get a little romantic attention at the end of the night but he backs off before making a move towards the bedroom. You get the sense that he is gentlemen as well as everything else about him, makes you like him even more, but boyfriend material, not so sure yet.
3. Third date and this is the best one yet. You start to realize how creative and attentive this guy is because he is like that all the time and not just putting on an act for you and the moments you share. You have started to playfully text during the day and this guy seems deeply attracted to you. He plans a very cozy date between the two of you and gives you his full attention. When the date seems to be winding down you invite him back to your place to see what can happen. Turns out he has the same thoughts as you and wants to have a good time that night. He leaves the next morning and you start to think about him all the time.
4. By the time the forth date rolls around, you realize how great this guy is and how much fun you have with him. You take someone’s bad advice online and you start to dress more provacatively to seduce him. You start thinking about what he would be like in a committed relationship and you start thinking of ways to attract that into your life. You have a great fourth date and he is attentive and in the moment with you the whole time. He enver even looks at another woman.
5. Five, six and seven, have you in heaven. You are telling your friends at work and you have even called your mom and said something vague like he might be the one. This is everything you wanted to have in your life and he is a perfect guy, with an exciting career, a great body, and a lust for the enjoyment of life that seems to be unmatched. You are enjoying a lot of fun in the bedroom and things couldn’t be going any better.
6. By date eight, you have been seeing him for a month and you are ready to commit. He calls you up one day and says that he has been doing a lot of thinking and you he realizes that even though you are a terrific person in every conceivable way, he is not done dating other people and wants to stop seeing you. The news is crushing to you and you feel like screaming at him about what is wrong with him. You want to ask but what about the way we were connecting and he says, well, that seems to happen every time with me and I value every single moment I spend with someone, but I just think this is the end of the line for our relationship.
Is that something that you would want to go through? I’m getting ahead of myself, I know. But this is how I think. And if you don’t think I am in the moment at all times, that is not the case. This is how I live, by telling stories like this and it all comes from being in the moment. I just happen to like to think about stuff like this.
What do I do if I am the guy in this scenario? What are your thoughts about it Kheim? I like to think that I am quite in tune with people’s emotions and besides being a little confused about sex, as I sort through ancient information and modern ideas to feel what is best for me. I know the way I write may seem like I am worrying but that is not the case. I ust don’t want to go around breaking hearts, but I am a smart,m creative, good looking (subjective I know, but I ain’t ugly) guy and that when the person I am seeing gets caught up in that.
I’m not saying I won’t take a chance at a relationship if it felt right in the moment, but I’m just like a woman in this sense. I don’t know right away but when I decide that I don’t want to persue a relationship for whatever reason, I don’t want to make a person feel bad about being rejected. This is very important to me since the first couple of successful relationships I had I felt very betrayed about how they were ended. And later on, after I got comfortable meeting and being around women, they started doing it again.
Should I say on date one, oh and by the way, I am really only looking for short term relationships or should I wait until my mind catches up with my urges? Or stay single and look for the one who is going to be someone I can be around for the next one to two years.
Mike
Mike, as you might have expected someone to say …. you’re thinking waaaaaay too far ahead. Whenever I start doing that it fucks things up, almost without fail. I know you say that you are in the moment, but how can you be when you’re playing out such a detailed scenario in your head? To be honest, this is just an excuse for inaction.
At the risk of offending the female readers, I’d be careful about accepting their advice about what the right thing is to say. Many women will say how they want a nice guy who treats them well, before promptly going out and falling in love with a ‘bad boy’. Few women will admit to being excited by a guy with who they aren’t exactly sure where they stand, but in my experience I don’t think women really do want to be exactly sure of things. In the same way most guys will appreciate a girl more who they have to work more for (ie. treat ‘em mean keep ‘em keen).
By the way, I’d suggest letting your urges overtake your mind – your mind has been in the driving seat for way too long!:-)
Mike,
It seems to me you live your life based on how you want her to feel instead of based on how YOU feel. You are more worried about her perception of you and you forget what’s important to you.
My point is always to act as you feel more, be honest in how you feel so you can convey/project it… and don’t over promise (which is not always communicated in words but more in your behavior).
Let me give you an example from my own life.
Everything with my last g/f went very quickly. How she felt about me was exactly how you described in your scenario but we didn’t wait until 3rd date to get intimate. We almost got intimate on first date… but in actuality, we hooked up on 2nd date.
She was attracted to me a lot and so was I to her. Within a month, I started wondering if she could be “the one”. Unbeknownst to me, she was thinking of me on a long-term basis as well. She’s actually the one who pushed for being committed.
However, there was a few issues that I had to think through before I could commit. Every time she pushed for more, I just told her how I felt… and I was honest with her. I basically told her many times: “All I know right now is that I like you, I want to explore more of what we have… but I don’t know if I can commit just yet. As long as it feels good and right, I want to continue and see where this goes”
As such, she waited a bit longer than usual for me… and we did become b/f-g/f later but at any given time, I always reminded her that this relationship can only work if it feels good and right for the both of us. I’ve always reinforced honesty in our relationship and we’ve agreed from the beginning that if anyone of us ever started to feel differently, we’d let each other know.
I’ve also explained to her on may occasions how I would react if she was the one who decided to leave me. I told her I wouldn’t get mad b/c love is a choice 2 people have to make to be together but I’d expect truth. By letting her know that, I implied that I expect that from her as well.
In your scenario, you were the one who didn’t think of her for serious relationship in the end… but if you created the right precedence, the right expectations from the beginning as I did, you minimize any amount of hurt she (or you) may feel.
Mike
TAKE IT SLOW….
If you have the knowledge that you can create deep connections easily and that these can lead to broken hearts…then you have to ask yourself which path do I take ?
The path of pure me, you knowingly go out wanting something short emotionally intense which most likely will lead to someone being hurt. We all have had moments where we were pure selfish, and that is fine just be aware of the consequences for someone else.
Or do I go with not wanting to leave not too much hurt around me, there will always be some if you break up. Just maybe go a little slower in the beginning, not so intense from the start. You let the emotional connection slow down and not let it escalate to something really intense in a short while.
Girls, when we start feeling it’s a two way street with someone mutually interested in our deepest thought/dreams/fears connect really deep on a emotionally level and if we are attracted to the person then we naturally will think in terms of relationships. If you guys just want to get laid or casual, then don’t fuck with our heads by pretending to go deep into us.
Even if you say upfront I only want something short and it’s mutually agreed upon, The Pure Indulgence Treaty, at some point something most likely will change for one of the parties.
You just have to understand no matter how you would like to walk away most likely there will always be hurt involved..but that is life, there are no victims we all make our own choice, nobody forces us.
Peter, when you get paid $60,000 grand or more to create scenarios it does actually become in the moment and is a huge source of pride for me. It took me longer to write that one up above then it did to think it. I don’t worry, I just create, there is a little bit of a difference.
Also, other people’s emotions are very important to me. I don’t know if a lot of you are familiar with empathy, but it can be improved and developed to the point where it is intense. See what happens when you don’t just go for physical interaction anymore. Your mind takes over. (that was a joke). I can sit next to a close friend who is tired and feel tired. I know it is something everyone does, but it seems to be more acute for me. I can tell when someone is mad, or upset, or jealous, because I can feel myself feeling that way even if it has nothing to do with me.
Khiem, thank you for sharing your expriences. That is the kind of advice I need to hear. Between one date and the next, I usually have written a whole screenplay in my mind about the experience. Doesn’t mean I don’t value the moment, I just happen to have a mind that does this very well. I create lots of things. Caution is definatetely one of them because I am worried about hurting people’s feelings.
Marina, I don’t just pretend to go deep in the head with people. It happens that way because my mind is tuned to do that. I think that way. I make money that way and that is a part of who I am. Every connection to me is a very important one but that is because I value each one I get as much as I value myself. I can sit down with people for a few hours and they will be telling me things they never told anyone else before. That is a part of me. I guess, maybe because of how attentive I can get, short term relationships are not right for me.
Lots of things to think about. Thanks for the great answers, Peter, Khiem and Marina. Where is Dan on this one?
Mike, thinking creatively very quickly isn’t the same as experiencing things ‘in the moment’. Your skill is no doubt very valuable (I have a similar one around problem solving), but it isn’t what people are talking about here. In fact to be very creative you’re quite often thinking way off down the road – I know because I do that very often myself.
And of course many of us here are familiar with empathy – I probably displayed some empathetic tendencies in the previous paragraph.:-) But its one thing to understand where someone is at, and another thing to understand and then lead them to a better place.
I fully understand the responsibility you feel for not hurting someone’s feelings, particularly when you feel a strong connection with them. But its almost as if you’re saying that wherever you take them will be somewhere that’s not beneficial for them. I’m sure you know that we’re all responsible for the people and situations we draw into our lives, so if you lead someone somewhere that they’re not happy with, remember that that is part of their life’s journey as well.
Mike
I was thinking today I have met men like you and my mom has said to me also that when a woman gives into a man quickly without first getting to know this will make him run away…You are a ladies gentleman…Let find something of interest…
When a man feels strongly about a woman for more than just a physical fling then he will be more patient about sex…It seems like to me you are the kind of guy that is willing to wait on the woman where sex is concerned…There are men like you…Take the men of my generation they are the same way like those of the old school…
Unfortunately some women feel such strong connection or physical attraction to a man that they make the mistake of jumping in bed with him and then there is no turn back and in the back of their mind they know they made the mistake and want a long term boyfriend and want the same in return…
Maybe this will help you understand..Women think differently from men and when it comes to bonding in a sexual way or even dating we look at things differently then men do…
Luv Ya
Sandra
P.S.
Mike
You are not classified as a player you want to be a gentlemen when it comes to ladies and I believe that is what you are looking for in a woman…Like gentlemen ladies are few and far between…Keep seeking and you will find her one day…
>>>>>>>Lots of things to think about. Thanks for the great answers, Peter, Khiem and Marina. Where is Dan on this one?
Trying to finish things up around here before my trip, barely have time to read the posts….I must say Khiem had some excellent advice! Ok, Peter and Marina did too:-) And of course SH goes deep again “Women think differently from men and when it comes to bonding in a sexual way or even dating we look at things differently then men do…” Wow
LA must be a heaven for for women looking for short term relationships for people in the movie/TV industry, no?
I have lots left to learn, obviously. I’m proud of the way I think, but I have to work on adjusting it to reflect what I want instead of what I see.
Dan, you are correct, it is a pretty libidious state I live in. I have already been successful over a dozen times, but I was a coward about the bedroom because I was worried about myself. Have a great time in China. I’ve heard single men in Asia can have a really good time if they want it.
My change in attitude is something that only appeared about three years ago and it has taken a long time to get to where I am at. I have farther to go, but I am on the right path. Thanks for all the help.