Look Out For Mr. Crash And Burn Man
March 25, 2011 
64 Comments
I rarely talk about going out to bars at night, but it’s interesting. The other night I went to a place called Chaya Venice, which is actually in Santa Monica.
Anyway, it was funny. I was watching this group of girls sitting right behind us. They were just talking and having a good time.
Then I see these guys come over to talk to them. It was really funny. The first guy came over, walked up to the girls, and he was Mr. Crash And Burn Man.
He walked over and said, “How is everyone doing tonight?” He had a lot of energy.
It almost felt like he took a moment to think about what he was going to say, but the only so-called clever thing he could think of was ‘how is everyone doing tonight.’ So the girls looked at him and mimicked his energy saying, “We’re doing great tonight! How are you?”
The next thing you know, he hits the eject button. I watched him run away like a scared little boy. He literally walked away, and I was cracking up as I witnessed this.
Bye Bye You Bore Me
So at that moment, and knowing human nature as well as I do, I knew that he would go back and try again, because he was in that “what he was doing right and wrong” mode. About fifteen minutes later, he went back to the women’s table and brought his wing man with him.
The wing man was what we call the monkey with the tambourine. So Mr. Monkey goes back with Mr. Crash And Burn Man (aka the guy who failed miserably), and Mr. Monkey basically just entertained the girls for about five minutes.
I watched the women’s reaction to this. They were laughing at first. Then they started getting annoyed because this wing guy, who obviously thought he was good at meeting women, basically wasn’t going to ask questions or really engage in conversation. All he was doing was entertaining them.
He was what I call the monkey with the tambourine because he was nothing more than a performing animal. He went through this five minute speech (all of which I didn’t get to hear), and all I saw was the women’s interest level dissipate.
Finally after five minutes of talking and not listening, the conversation got dull and boring. The monkey with the tambourine guy basically shot his entire load in those five minutes, and so both guys left.
I walked over to the women and said, “So how did the interaction go with the monkey with the tambourine? He was the wing man, and the other guy is the typical good-looking guy who has absolutely no game.”
They were cracking up, and proceeded to tell me that these guys had no clue at all. I asked them what would have worked for them. They looked at me and said, “How about a normal conversation? He brought his wing man over, and it did not work because he really did not listen at all. All he did was perform.”
What happens is that a lot of guys think they are getting this right, when in reality they are getting this kind of reaction from women. I don’t care where you are, it’s still about starting a conversation based on an observation.
About an hour later we were having dinner, and they came over to our table. They sat down, talked to us, and asked for advice about their love lives.
The bottom line is that a successful approach and conversation is all based on a simple observation. One of my favorite ways to meet women in a bar is to watch other guys crash and burn, and then walk over to them. Say with a big smile, “What did that guy say to you? He ran away like he was leaving the scene of an accident. What was the funniest thing he said?”
Everyone enjoys talking about Mr. Crash And Burn Man. Be careful, however, not to get all into your heads about this right now. At least crash and burners are trying.
Most of them just don’t look deep enough to realize what they are doing is wrong, and that is why they keep crashing and burning. They are not working on their social skills.
It’s all about trying, tweaking and understanding what you are doing wrong. Maybe the next time you crash and burn, grow some balls and walk back over to the women. Say, “Okay I failed at my attempt to intrigue you. What could I have done differently?” You will be amazed at how receptive she will be and how amazing that conversation can be.
This is what most of the guys that are new to the “pua” scene do. They spill out every routine at their arsenal without even knowing what is it for.
The “talking” goes nowhere. Better if its like what the girls said “a normal conversation”.
Did you step in and help them out?
Sorry, but I don’t believe this really happened, and don’t believe these women talked to you about the “crash and burn” antics, of the so called PUA’s failure. Why would they be interested in talking with a man who was obviously with a date, and of no “value” to them, and ask for advice from a total stranger, about their love lifes? Does not seem plausable, or a realistic encounter, at all, to me. Nice try though…
You did not tell me the circus was in town oh my God Dave I laughed so hard that I just almost wet myself. Here is one for you my daughter came to see me at work and as I was taking my fifteen minute break this guy jumps in a conversation between me and my daughter (wrong approach method) When my break was over I said to my daughter cut the comedy my break is over then she and i went to stand by the front and here comes stooge once more talking about some dumb talk and we just ignored him. When I mentioned this to my dad he said i am talking to you am i, i said dad you talk sense but this guy only talks horses**t…luv u dave
Is it me, or are you gaining an affinity for the bar scene? I feel like you’ve written “I don’t usually talk about bars, but” every other blog for the last couple weeks or so.
Anyway, entertaining read.
I find it funny how guys work so hard… to not even get to the point of having a genuine connection with someone. While I spend my time connecting with women, having great relationships and enjoying my time with them, these guys focus on “approaching them”. OK let’s say he’s lucky and successful and she’s interested. Then what? OK let’s say he’s lucky and successful and they have sex. Then what? I suppose very few guys in the seduction community ever ask themselves that question because they never reach such success.
Bob
Are you calling me a liar?
That is what it appears to me.
First off read the blog again. Did I ever say i was on a date?
Good Bob, now you can see that I was not on date.
Did you presume that when i said US it meant myself and a date?
Is US always a date in your world?
US can easily be friends,clients or do I need in all future blogs post all the names of the people who I am with, so you won’t get confused.
Why would i make anything up, do you think I have nothing better to do than create fake scenarios so you can call me a liar.
You crack me up.
I am open to a debate and a difference of opinion but being called a liar on my own blog pisses me off.
Heres the deal bob….
I was with a client and one of my coaches and people will talk to me about all sorts of things because I pay attention to all the details in life.
Maybe instead of doubting everything you go out and try this and see if it will work for you.
Oh and tonight I was out and I was going to share this really cool thing that happened but I don’t feel you really deserve to hear about it:)
Bob, you’d be surprised how a total stranger can open up to you, I was in blockbuster talking to a woman who was married,The conversation went from movies to her telling me about how abusive her ex husband was. Sounds like you’ve never had a real conversation with a woman before and are listening to too much Mystery.
David, sounds like your ego kicked in. Watch that first step, it’s a doosy
Dave my brotha: Don’t trip. Cows moo,dogs bark, and haters hate! I work at a hotel in Denver, I admit,that I have the gift of gab, and I’ve had female guests tell me about their life and family and such,and all I basically said was “Where y’all from and what brings you to Denver”?.
Bob: You need to put down that bottle of Hatorade!
david dont rise to bobs bait… ure much bigger than that. You dont need to prove anything. Any one that question ure techniques are the kind of people that loike reading but dont put it into practise… Its all about observation… and enaging in normal conversation as if your talking to your mate… seriously works… and women are so open when you just chat to them. I find it easy to start with going to places were you have the same things in mind eg. travel getting a train bus etc. automaticially you know the head space a women is in… you know she is going to meet someone or to an event… you know that she is bored and if she is not reading when she is dying for a conversation… over that last couple oof weeks i have worked oon this and on mmost ooccasions i have chatted for 20-30mins… the sercret is let her talk…and listen to what she is saying and mental note questions that you can ask when or if she stops talking…lol when u ask her a question on something she said 5mins ago she really opens up to you….why cau she feels a emotional connection with you because 90% of people in a conversation are just waiting for there turn to speak
(This works for guys and girls really) It really is a safe zone to try out davids techniques cau if conversation runs out you can go back to something that is happening around you or ask another question around were is is going etc..
when you start applying this is f@*king unbelieveable..
I don’t hate but I actually agree with Bob that it was probably made up for the purpose of the lesson. It is a good lesson though.
Also Wygant reacted to Bob and got defensive.
Dr. Dupree
Dupree
When someone is calling you a liar would you just sit back like a passive person and say nothing?
This is my blog and my site.
When someone calls me out on something that is not true, i will always correct him.
Here,s the deal do you know why you and Bob think this was made up?
It is because neither one of you can imagine doing this and you are both too much in your heads.
Dupree you agree that this is a good lesson but your mindset can not let you grasp that this can happen.
So here is a challenge to you and Bob,
Go out tonight do this exact thing and tomorrow post your results.
Lets see if you are an action man or a man who lives inside your head.
And I actually enjoy when people respond with non belief it shows how twisted there mindset is.
Kevin
No ego at all.
When I coach i call people out all the time.
Bob lacks the mindset to make this happen so he just shrugs off and finds an excuse so he can avoid doing this exact thing.
I have seen it for years.
Guys who doubt live in fear and excuse land.
Or a better way to out it,
They live on the corner of fear ave and insecure blvd.
If I dont kick Bobs ass who will?
Someone has to call him out and get him out of his head.
David is right…it is his site and his blog….so how the hell are you two(Bob and Dupree) going to call him a liar indirectly…you two are obviously here because you guys need help approaching women like everybody else. So…yeah…good job Dave….you put those two in their place!
As someone that took his bootcamp, I saw him kick a few people in the ass, to get them moving.
Move, dude! Get out there.
That is the only way things will change for you. If you make it happen.
Thanks for all the lessons, David.
/bow
David, what’s up with calling out for help? Isn’t really manly, IMO.
On-topic: I don’t even care if you make your stories up or not. They’re good, I can learn from them, it works and that’s enough. Although I absolutely dont doubt your experience, because you know stuff too well.
I’m off to some practice, have fun tonight everyone.
Hi Dave,
People have no idea how TRUE and NORMAL this is. I have total strangers talk to me all the time about everything from their sex issues to marriage challenges…and they’re not even clients.
I agree with you. This is your space and there’s nothing wrong with correcting someone.
I mentor successful women in business… People attacking comes with the territory. I, too, correct them. Totally normal.
Years ago, things like this bothered me. Now I realize it’s a good sign that you are being YOU and you’re making a difference in the lives of those who resonate.
David, love you being REAL
Hey David, I have seen this myself, I started my Journey with the PUA stuff and now have exceeded anything I ever thought possible reading your blog among other thing’s and I have done the exact same thing you did and gotten the same result.
I have been at the same job for 8yrs and the guy’s I work with are just amazed at the woman I date, I have changed my life drastically in the last 5yrs, I am just a blue collar guy and dated a Dr. recently and one guy was astounded he actually said to me “Guy’s like us don’t date Dr.” my response was no guy’s like you don’t date Dr.
It really is all about connection and in my book attraction is a type of connection it is all in what you do after you create the attraction that will fade fast so you better be listening to get clues about the woman.
Jeff
Dave is totally right on the money.
I’ve done this plenty of times, you just have to understand that all people (not just women) appreciate somebody who gets it.
You can get it if you pay attention to the other person and empathize, try to imagine what they might be thinking. Quit acting like you’re too cool to care and quit trying to think of stupid stories and jokes.
Nobody cares.
I rarely read blogs but Dave’s email had such good copy that I felt compelled to read it today. If you guys don’t believe that things like this happen, what are you even doing here?
Maybe try whatever it is you’re doing until you realize that it’s not working as well as you’d like and you naturally open up to other options.
Guys, if you doubt what David says, get a hold of a copy of his ’20 ways to meet hot women’ and just listen. The one about the taxi line in Vegas made me a believer in 20 seconds.
Bob, Dupree,
I assume that you guys are either on this site / blog to learn or to cause trouble. Insulting a man in private is one thing, but insulting a man professionally in front of clients is another.
I second David’s suggestion: Get out there, try it and report back. I’m sure that you’ve got balls enough to do so, and hey … you might even learn something.
Hey, I’ll step up to the plate. I’m eager to try it out! I live in Korea, so things are a little bit different here, but maybe not in this case.
So tomorrow, I will go into Myeong-dong, which is one of the most famous shopping districts in Seoul, and I’m going to share some energy with all kinds of people. And when I blow out, I’ll walk away, give it a minute, and then walk back and say, “Okay, I did not interest you. What could I have done differently?” I don’t know what to expect, and I think it might be fun to do research.
We’ll see what happens, and I’ll post the results on this blog.
Hey Dave! Interesting story, I am not into the bar circus but it’s amusing to me what goes on in there. Even though you like to use those guys as conversation starters in bars, at least you give them credit that even though the result was crash and burn, they had the balls to approach!
I never really started my journey using PUA material (although I have studied it) because frankly it was too much to think about what to say, then adapt it a certain way when a woman responds. I’m like, what am I doing? Making a movie or trying to connect to people? PUA is more into making movies. A fairytale is based on real life not some script.
The natural approach based on a simple observation is the best. That way, one is dealing with normal things like nerves, listening, keeping the conversation going for a awhile or opening the door for future conversations.
Dave: I had a co-worker, who inidentally was named Bob. Whenever I had the backbone to speak up or stand up for myself, he always went and told other people: “Ken didn’t say that to that 6’4″ 300lb guy, he’s lying again”.
One day, he ran-off at the mouth about how I was lying to make myself look good, when several co-workers said: “Bob shut up, we actually saw Ken do it”.
Point: Bob had the backbone of a jellyfish, and didn’t like people who had backbone, so he always disredited them.
Wow Bob and Dupree, you must have some dull interactions with women in bars. If you think THAT is a made-up story, then I don’t even want to tell you the kinds of things that I talk to people about in bars and how women open up to me within minutes of meeting them.
So you doubt that someone could open up and be honest to a total stranger just like that? Maybe it’s because you’re not allowing YOURSELF to open up and be vulnerable to her first. Is that ringing a bell gentlemen?
I want to highlight that the very last lesson in David’s post is something I think every man and woman reading this should practice (if you don’t already), especially men because they tend to be so guarded with their fragile egos.
It’s such an AMAZING practice to really open yourself up and ask the woman who you talked to, or your date, or your girlfriend, or your partner or whatever, what it is that you did wrong, what it is that turned her off about you, or what is that you could have done better about yourself to connect better.
I do it ALL the time. Being vulnerable and open and honest like that really does WONDERS to my ability to communicate and make deeper, lasting connections. This is a principle I apply from first meeting a woman all the way into my long-term relationships.
Brandon, I’m eager to hear your results. Be sure to follow up on the blog.
I lived in Japan for several years in my early 20s and will defintitely be able to relate.
Post your experiences and maybe I can offer you some insights too!!
Brandon
That’s a good idea. Reengaging to find one’s faults or mistakes is a good way to learn.
I don’t think it’s worth it to lose sleep over Bob’s comments, but I’m not the accused party either. I think the relative anonymity of the blogosphere allows people to write things that they wouldn’t normally say directly to someone.
With respect to today’s “lesson” it is not only believable, but also something that I have done on the occasions I’ve gone to the bar. It’s kind of fun and informal to talk to women about attraction without necessarily trying to get somewhere with them. Basically, it amounts to data collection or market research. It takes the pressure off of both parties because each group is transparent and authentic. Not every interaction with women has to yield a phone number to be qualified as a success.
I wouldn’t care if someone called me a lair on a blog, I don’t care if someone doesnt wanna talk to me in real life, so why would I care if someone is calling me names or doesn’t believe what I said is true? I’ll never meet that person or see them again so what do I care? Not gonna lose sleep or get all worked up about it.
Hi Dave, I read the blog and everything you said was absolutely right.
. I was at a party with my friends and this girl was sitting all alone, very small, 5 foot 2 maybe, and I’m 5 foot 5 so I LOVE small girls. She was very quiet, texting, and not very talkative. So I decided to sit down and talk with her, learned a few things, and near the end of the night because I was listening to her, connecting to her feelings we actually got to the point where we were grabbing each others hands, I would ask if she trusted me, she would say “yes” and it became a flirty game near the end of the night. Obviously nothing “Happened” but I rather it that way. Never good to sleep with girls u just met and really connected with at parties.
I also read the comments, and YES, when someone tries to call you a liar, I am proud to see you back yourself up, definitely not ego its just standing up for what you believe in, and these guys are just to afraid to not live outside their heads. But there is one thing I have gathered from this that may change my mindset forever, don’t think about the approach, just go over and start a convo. Don’t think about approach/Observation, think about Observation/Conversation so you’re mind set isn’t to get with her, its just to have a genuine conversation with her. And of course and I already know this, if you guys connect and have a nice conversation and you’re listening to her, she will at times just offer the number over.
I love when men come up to me and ask me why guys bombed.
Its always a great conversation.
Bob you need to open your mind a bit you sound like a frustrated adolescent.
OK Dave, I have more proof that your principles work with more than just women, but ANYONE! THIS story is NOT made up.
So One night, while hoping to cross paths with a girl who was in town with whom I’d been texting for weeks, I started conversation with a woman at the bar. I was at this really swanky place I’d heard about (but never been to) called “Shanahan’s” in south Denver (Tech Center). I noticed (Observation) that she seemed to know the staff pretty well, and they were talking about various liquor brands, etc.
After a while talking, naturally, no lines, no pickups, nothing, she bought me 3 premium drinks! Why? She was the distributor, and this was her location, and as she put it “I want you drinking MY product, and not someone else’s” Ha! After a bit her FIANCÉ shows up! But me, I play it cool, I’m not phased – and the 3 of us talk it up for a bit, and HE buys me a drink!
So the place starts getting busy, and there’s only 1 seat at the bar available (next to me), and this old couple walks up, and the man offers the seat to his wife. So, me being in high-energy-all-american-hero mode, I offer my seat to the old guy, with the caveat “As long as you can deal with us yakkin’ it up over here!”
Within moments the 5 of us are all having a jolly time – when I get a text from the girl – she wasn’t able to delay her flight, so I wouldn’t be seeing her. Damn! Well, the old couple by then had been joined by their son and beautiful daughter. They were celebrating their daughter’s last week visiting with a nice dinner at this swanky place. So, I took the opportunity to share how I moved to Denver and how much I loved it and jokingly tried to convince her to stay here in Denver. Her parents got a kick out of this, and long story short – invited me to JOIN them for DINNER! They bought me WINE, Appetizers, STEAK DINNER, and Chocolate cake for Dessert!
Dave – don’t let these punks act up, your s**t works, and I’ve tested it with PHENOMENAL results EVERYWHERE I CAN!
I’ve got tons more amazing stories, but that one “takes the cake!”
I had to laugh when i read this.
David as always calling people out on their shit and excuses!.
When you coached me i had the same excuses and fears as Bob but i was man enough to realize that and start on this new journey.
Bob you need David more than you realize.
Get you ass out of your head and go to a bootcamp.
Hey Chuck
As you know I will always call people out when they are full of fear and excuses.
I can not resist!
Thanks for sharing your great story with all of us!!!!
I always say charm the parents and the daughter will follow!
I am not here to put anyone down for trying to meet women. I am 38 yrs old and honestly up until the last couple of yrs have had to try to meet women. I used to go to a redneck country bar and line danced. Most women came and started conversations with me!Now where I live there is really not many places to go except a few bars and I really don’t know what to do. Been trying to grow some balls and start conversation but not doing so well. I better figure it out quick. Havent dated since my wife left a yr and a half ago.
Good blog! In my opinion there is some similarities between you David Wygant and PUA’s. Pick up artist just name their stuff and you don’t. PUA’s give students routines as training wheels then students suppose to take off those wheels in time and start using their own stuff and invent their own routines or observing the situation, depending on the PUA teacher teachings. Every PUA is not the same! Of course I see some differences too between PUAs and David Wygant. But one thing I do see is that David Wygant and PUA’s teach you how to get good at Game. It’s up to the student too pick what he feels is better for him. In my opinion both PUA’s and David Wygant are great. I learned and still learning from both.
This story reminded me of many similar incidents I’ve experienced when a guy has a little “routine” he breaks out for women, and after the “show” is done, there isn’t anything else to do but walk away, since they haven’t really engaged with us at all. I remember one where the guy even had a set of card tricks he was busting out – basically going around all night doing the same two card tricks for women he saw in a bar, then awkwardly walking away afterward. Your advice is spot-on. Even when we’re interested and looking to connect, if a guy doesn’t engage us as a genuine person who they might want to be friends with, there isn’t much you can do to bridge the gap between you.
Wygant, I don’t think you made this up. Why should you? like you said. Maybe these people have such poor conversational skills they cannot imagine strangers talking to them. Well, I go to bars a lot and that’s just what strangers do – talk. Duh! The point is to be social. I’ve had all kinds of conversations with people in bars and I’m not even a dating coach. If you ask some girls what that other guy did wrong, yea they will tell you. Especially if they’re kinda tipsy and already in a chatty mood. The doubters on this page really need to learn that it’s not that hard to talk to women. You just talk. Duh!
Usually I don’t post here because 1. I’m very new here and 2. I’m usually a listener more than a talker. That said, I’m compelled to write my first post here because I don’t understand why anyone would have doubted Dave’s story. What he said he did wasn’t anything unbelievable or extraordinary. I could have or would have gone up and talked to the girls, using the previous “crash and burn” guy for conversation fodder (if I had thought to do it) and I’m far from being an expert.
Anyhow I’m really enjoying reading your blog Dave, thanks.
I have a question:
Who on this blog has the eyes of God. If Dave says he was in the bar then who are we to judge did you actually see him sitting there. Well if u did not then get back to your crystal ball and try all over again and anyway I love to hear about daredevil men. They try to outdo one another. Give them a challenge and they will try their hardest to outdo one another especially in front of the women it is like a rooster that struts in front of the females or a gobbler raises his tail fan to attrack the female. You go dave luv u still…Give that baby of yours a big hug for me and say it is from aunt sandra
My approach to a guy:
I have to know him for awhile before I pull off this one:
There is this guy at work and when he says something like not today thanks for asking I will come back and say ask for what then he will come back with a comment of his own and I will say I am going to make you work for it for I am not that easy. Then he will actually say girl you are not right. Then one time I caught him and made his face turn red! It happened one morning before I was going to clock in and he made a comment and I said that is not what you said last night remember honey. lol It would not make my day if I could not tease with this guy. Then there are other stories I could tell but I do not want to be a blog hog.
Hi everyone! I haven’t been on in awhile as I’ve been busy coaching but I had to comment on this one! I’ve enjoyed reading all of the comments on what really happened and why. Well…you ready Bob and Dupree? It was I Coach Kimberly who was the mystery “we” that night so yes it really happened!!! In fact a lot of what we teach occurred that night organically as David and I were showing how easy it can be. The other part of the story that night was that we had created an energy in that bar prior to that interaction so that the girls already noticed us. We had made a connection because we paid attention to what was going on with them.
Women want to know you actually CARE about what they are saying and who they are…not about a monkey playing a tambourine. That gets old fast! I mean how long can you watch that? And not once did the showman ask questions about the girls that would elicit more conversation and create more of a connection. After those guys left we asked them if they would have felt differently if they actually paid attention and found out about THEM? All three shouted out in a chorus “OMG…YES!” And that is why they came and hunted us down later that night. We actually cared about how they were feeling and who they were…that’s what creates chemistry and connection!
So Bob and Dupree I hope that cleared up a few doubts in your head. I just have one question…what about what happened or what was described is so hard to believe for you? Are interactions like this that difficult for you guys? Would love to help you with that…
Hey David Wygant,
Hear is my problem I think. Last friday at a store I walk up to a girl about 20yrs old I am 36. I asked her opinion on something that happened in the news a week earlier, it took me 6 minutes to lay out the event, as I could tell she had not heard it. Then I felt I had said enough to get her opinion, she gave a 2 sentence opinion and stoped talking. So I kept the conversation going buy adding some more sentences and she kept giggling and smiling throughout. Anytime I tried to get her to carry the conversation, she would say “No, (cause)what you say is interesting, I’m just listening. Finally after 15 minutes of this, she told me something that is a favorite of hers. So we manged a 60/40 conversation, with me doing 60%. Still better then me doing 95% for the first 15 minutes.
How do I avoid the problem of Girls wanting me to carry the conversation “cause what I say is intriguing or interesting” cause I tend to say stuff no guy has ever said before. ANd this girl she was holing 6 small items and she would inhale audibly and drop 2 items like her credit card and shampoo bottle. When I offered to help, she’d giggle and say “gosh” and pick up and giggle more and smile at me with full eye contact and nod for me to keep speaking more.
Am I making my stories too unique and intriguing that these women are mesmerized and will not carry the conversation? I feel like crying – it sucks. Now I have the balls to talk to any hot sexy woman and bee cool as a cucumber, thanks to the courses I bot from you – before I would have gotten a mental breakdown trying to talk to a stranger woman. But from my story you can tell – I am doing something wrong.
At a store or grocery store in the shampoo isle, what on earth can one strike a conversation about. My favorite subject is advanced magic like new technologies/science. But I do not suppose I can milk that strong suit of mine, I ask cause unlike rest of the guys I can present it like the 17th century Scientist after whom the word “Mesmerize” is coined as his last name was Mesmer and science talk is what he used to seduce all the socialites in France in 17th Century.
Boy have I just embarased myself?
Well so what, I got Balls now and can take embarrassment with a smile and not piss myself – thanks to your material worth every dime. Even I I never get a Hot chic via this…
I recently watched a couple videos posted online & decided to check out your website. Just wanted to mention, that, as a social female that has seen alot of Mr. Crash & Burns, I totally believe this story is totally true & can vouch for it! A similar scenario has actually happened to some friends & myself while out. Women will totally tell you the truth if you just ask for it, especially after Mr. Crash & Burn walks away. The smart guy is one that either sits back, watches & waits til the Mr. Crash & Burn has departed, or initiates a connection better the first time- which means at least giving the person you’re approaching a chance to communicate back with you Because you Are interested & for it to be a meaningful connection, it has to be a 2-way deal which equals something to listen to as well! Its true, at least Mr. Crash & Burn is trying, but they should realize that we Were given ears for a reason!
David,
You’re a good guy and I generally like you’re advice, but I just wanted to point out something that I think got lost in that little tug of war above (who I’m guessing won’t be allowed back). I’ll make my point and hope you consider it.
I really hope that you and your coaches take that particular opener out of your repertoire. I did pretty much the exact same thing, except with a more detailed critique and the girls loved it and we talked…. but later at the club I felt kind of guilty about it. The dudes were actually nice guys and I felt like I got an advantage at their expense. When you go with an opener like that (although may not have been intended), it’s essentially making fun of those guys and their ineptness. Considering most of your clients and readership would be at those guys skill level or worse…there are so many other openers to go with.
Eric
Everyone is allowed back on the blog.
I enjoy a great debate and the blog has been set up so everyone can voice their opinions.
I welcome Bob back.
You felt guilty because they were good guys and you now want to stop using that approach.
How about if you shared that approach with the guys so they could learn how to do it the right way.
How about telling that what you did and actually help them out so they can have more fun and not get frustrated by the end of the night.
That is essentially what I do everyday with all of my coaching clients.
I get them to man up and learn from their mistakes.
What you just did was mother them.
You wanted to protect them so they they would not be taken advantage of.
So with your mindset why dont we make a list of all the potential openers that guys are afraid to use.
That we way we may be left with a few that everyone feels ok about.
Have you bought any of my products?
you are aware that everything I teach is based on natural observations, that way the conversation just flows.
I also teach every man to learn from their mistakes and most important have fun when they go out.
You sound like a nice guy but the guilty feeling you had after is sweet but why do you want to be their mothers?
Thanks David.
Well, I essentially pointed out the dudes hesitation and body language to the girls and how adorably shy they were… it got a huge laugh from them and instant bonding…. I admit I got sucked in the moment because they were ridiculously hot and it was every man for himself. But, at the end of the day I kind of realized that there were two types of guys in the club (upscale rooftop club two years ago), guys that were bringing fun and good feelings and guys that were bringing bad feelings… I’ve had guys kind of c-block me too and I always thought that I wouldn’t do that…but I realized I wasn’t really any better than those guys. In the short term, it might have been an in…but with how many social circles seem to connect, in the long run, it probably was not the way to go as a tactic…and it wasn’t even necessary. I also started to observe some of my more popular friends they just kind of project fun and don’t try to clown anyone…. Yeah, I had an old book about how to start conversations written by you… paperback…a long time ago and thought it was really good (that’s how I knew how to google your name). Tried to find more books at Barnes and Nobles… I always liked your message of just being a mature man and seeing the world as a friendly place….and that’s why I was just pointing out that there were better openers that go in line with that philosophy. I mean essentially those dudes were essentially trying to practice that and say hello to the girls…their worst nightmare is to be laughed at…and then essentially mocked at by the next dude… When they came up to me later and was all friendly, I felt just terrible. I was essentially like the gunslinger that shot another cowboy in the back to get ahead. I’ve seen a few of your videos on here and really almost any playful observation will work. I saw your body language and it was open and inviting…some of your newbie clients look really uncomfortable and stiff… so that’s the really big difference.
Eric, If you don’t want to have your opener as making fun of the crash and burn guy then just do it in a friendly manner.
Use something like “So tell me.. what did that guy do wrong?” or make fun of the girl in a joking manner “That was a pretty decent looking guy. Do you have really high standards or something?” lol
First of all, how can this not be a real scenario. If you know David at all it would be evident that he is a confident, and powerful man who OBSERVES his environment. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum approached a group of girls after rehearsing a ROUTINE – no wonder he got rejected. They weren’t being real and we’re so lost inside their head “what am I going to say. If she says this – I’m gonna say that!”. In fact, these guys took the women out of their moment and interupted with nothing to contribute to the conversation. Enter David, with his great observing skills and being in the moment, he commented on how these guys got absolutely blown out the water. Not taking them out of the moment I am not surprised that they had a great conversation. It is all about being REAL and AUTHENTIC. David actually connected with them. Once you get out of your head and observe your environment and LISTEN you’ll never wonder what to say next. Bravo David.
Hey Eric
Life is all about the strong surviving:)
At a bar or club anything goes and the women need that entertainment factor.
You keep having fun and dont even think about the other guys.
Unless of course you want to help them out.
And you read Always Talk To Strangers…that was my book in 05.
Reid
Twiddle dee and twiddle dum.
Very funny but really true.
The women connected to us because we were real.
They did not connect to the other guys because they performed for them.
Twiddle dee and twiddle dum…
Could be the statement of the day!
Even though I occasionally come to the blog area I have felt a welcome truth be known when dave post on his blog it will show up on my face book i will scroll down and see what everyone is up too and sometimes i will comment and if i see something about dave and i feel like commenting then here i am again. luv n hugs i wonder about marina i have not seen here who knows i may find her on face book and say hi…
David,
Alrighty.
Guys, I am 5’10 blonde hair, blue eyes and get hit on constantly by men. I can see what all of you are saying. The one thing that most women can sniff out a mile off is a lack of authenticity. Eric, it sounds like you would be the type of person that would be better to just be yourself and be straight down the line – “Hey, I am new at learning about all of this dating business. I am just curious what those guys did that put you off?”. What all of you are doing is simply engaging an opinion and a response over something that most females are likely to answer. if someone has crashed and burned, they have probably ticked us off. When we are emotional, the first thing we like to do is vent. However, and this is speaking for only me personally, I would not take favourably to a guy approaching me to attempt to run down someone else. I would much rather someone approach me on a positive note and on their own merit. This is just me personally. I value respect for others very highly.
Hey there David! I down here in South Louisiana, and even though I’m near the “BIG EASY”, it’s still nice to grasp some real game info!! Keep em coming!!
Thanks, Jessie Pellegrin
Hi people, Great debate, I too would find it hard believe someone could get the girls to open up like that . . but that was before i got become a master communicator, really from that i learned mindset is so much and even working in front of the mirror to practice faical expressions and holding eye contact. things i really used to f*** up before.
Bob is by no means wrong here, he just hasn’t seein this done and his mindset is all wrong,
dont dis it and call it rubbish, aspire to it work hard and try it yourself.
Great blog tho and hope you’ll excuse my spelling. .
Jamie
David,
I guess my situation is beyond help to even comment on or just to complex….
I wonder if I am like those 2 clowns only I am one no wing man, I am new to my town.
Right now I’d be willing to settle just for a hot chic for a friend maybe a HUG buddy gal. I guess I am dumb I actually get more longer lasting pleasure from great Hugs with hot chics then sex – maybe cause I am scared of catching anything. In my last town in a different state almost all my dates etc were via friends, but cold approach seems way more fun. But how do you deal with the every scary issue of risk of getting herpes from kissing a girl or even easier to get HPV. A condom doesn’t protect ones lips.
But that’s a 2nd issue – I’ll worry about STD risk once I am back in the game, I would be happy if you touched my 1st issue from my 1st post.
Great topic, David. It’s amazing to see so many comments on one particular topic, even the haters. I just ordered the book “Always talk to strangers” , but before I get the book, I know I need to man up and avoid being the crash and burn guy.. I wish I got all this advice back in the day.. I would’ve had an entirely different mindset and inner game. I got the next two days off and Im gonna talk to some strangers…
“When I blow out, I’ll walk away, give it a minute, and then walk back and say, ‘Okay, I did not interest you. What could I have done differently?’ I don’t know what to expect, and I think it might be fun to do research.
We’ll see what happens, and I’ll post the results on this blog.”
Ladies and Gentlemen, I’m sorry to report that I was unable to do that. I have been sick since Sunday, and kinda dragging along.
But I don’t want to leave you empty-handed. I have a report to give you.
Last Saturday, I went to a popular nightclub; one of those really large hip places with the pumping dance music, dim lights, and everyone looking their best. I usually don’t go there, but my friends wanted to. So keeping an open mind, I went anyway with no expectations but to try and have fun.
Amazingly, I met a really sweet, young Korean girl (23). I approached her with a confident smmile and asked, “Hi, how’s life tonight?” She replied that it was good, and then I made a joke asking if she was from Africa. She said no, and asked me where I was from, and I told her that I was Korean and had plastic surgery done on my face to look American.
We had a drink, and I told her that the area was too loud, and that we should move to a quieter area. It was there that I learned that she had lived in Singapore for a year, and majors in architectual design. She showed me a picture of one of her models on her phone, and I said, “I want this picture. It’s cool.” So she sent it to me.
I then suggested that we go to a nearby coffee shop to get a drink, and so we did. We talked about her family, my family, where we would want to go if we had a free first class plane ticket to anywhere. And some of the questions were sexual. I’m not afraid to ask those kinds of questions, and if she is put off by those questions, well then, so be it. It’s not like I’m ever going to run out of women to meet. Then again, maybe I scared her.
During this time, I kept up with some light touching on her arm and back. We made plans to meet this Sunday.
It was time for me to go. We left the coffee shop arm in arm, and I found a taxi. But while we were walking from the shop to the taxi, she kept trying to force a “just friends” frame on me. Just before I got in the taxi, I took her by the hands, and went in for the kiss. She turned her cheek.
Just one hour ago (Tuesday 10:30 pm.) she returned my phone call I made earlier that day. She said that she was going to have to cancel because she has an architectual competition in Busan this weekend. I told her how great that was, and that I was excited for her, and that it’s so cool that she would step up to do something amazing like that. This made her happy again.
And then she tried to force a friend frame again. “We’re just friends, we’re just friends.”
So I said, (and maybe this was the wrong thing to say) “Girl, we’re adults and we can do whatever we want with each other.”
Every single time when I have demanded definition, it never goes my way.
Then I said, “So I’ll see you next weekend. We’ll have a good time in Seoul, and if you have to cancel again, it’s cool.” To which she said, “It is?” And I non-chalantly say, “Yeah, of-course.”
Alright, now here’s the part where I some-what satisfy the topic of this blog. I asked her who was the worst guy she met that night in the club. And she told me about an American who just came up to her, grabbed her by the waist, pulled her to him, and just started dancing with her. She broke away from him quickly. Thankfully, he didn’t ruin her night. She also told me that I was the best man she had met that night.
Guys, be patient and please wait for me to stop puking in the toilet. I’ll do what I said I would do.
wow I really like this blog I haven’t bought any of David’s products but I assure you all that me reading things here and there has changed my mind perspective. I will definitely try this approach and see the outcomes, I go out rarely but I’m going to try it and post to you guys!!! Lets see who does it first huh brandon xD
P.s. just a friendly challenge!
Yeah I guess David is too chicken to answered a tough problem like the one “Mark ” posted twice and still he ignored him, but when some wise guy insulted his ego, he answered back so quickly.
Eric, that is completely untrue. David actually forwarded me “Mark’s” question last week via email and we talked about it and emailed Mark back. The problem is that where Mark is at right now, and the only way to really help him move forward, is WAAAAY beyond anything that could or responsibly should be posted in the comments section of the blog.
This should have been clear from the way Mark posted.
Brandon, thanks for posting your story! Keep posting guys, we’re reading them and it gives us insight for what David should talk about in future blog posts…
It’s done.
Three women stopped returning my text messages and phone calls.
So just for the hell of it, I texted them back, “Okay, you’re not interested in me, and that’s just fine. But was there something I did wrong?”
One answered that she just wanted to be friends and proceeded to shove her religion down my throat. I’m not interested in that.
Another said, that I did nothing wrong, and that she was often very busy during weekdays.
Another ignored me.
I’m not sure whether or not to take their answers at face value because in Asian culture, people don’t criticize as much as they do in America. Why? Because to do so makes others “loose face.” And that is to be avoided at all costs.
But hey, at least I got the work done, finally.
Great Post David,
It’s totally true. I’ve had many conversations involving the crash and burn man. I’ve actually been one myself when I first started out in the dating scene. Bring’s back funny memories. Sometimes, I feel sorry for the guys that do crash and burn…
Yeah great post Dave been great insight for me. Appreciate you are only trying to help if someone dissagrees that’s fine but they shouldn’t diss you for your effort….