Does Religion Affect Your Dating?
September 10, 2011 
80 Comments
Today I am enjoying an amazing Saturday in Chicago. I am here for my Art Of Communication seminar and while I am busy with the guys, I asked Dan to write up a really tough blog today. So give your Dan your eyes and I will be online later checking out all the comments!
This is a tough post for me to write because I’m not even sure how I feel about it. I’m going to be writing about religion. Plus I know when David asked me to write this I was taken back. I know he is not a religious person at all and knew that this topic could really stir some things up.
So here is my story about how religion has affected me in dating and thanks David for letting me share something very personal with the readers.
I’m a cradle Catholic. That means I was born a Catholic. I’ve gone to church every Sunday, with a few exceptions, since I was 4. I’m 27 now. I recently stopped going to church. I still believe in God. My experience with religion was mixed. I have felt my best and my worst with it.
There are times, when everything is dark and it looks like the world is just going to fall apart right on top of you… and you feel like you’re completely broken and you can’t take a step farther… and then, after all the yelling and screaming and crying there’s just silence… and you can hear God whisper to you “DO NOT BE AFRAID”. Yeah, whispering in all caps. And you know everything is going to be fine because you’re connected with that Higher Power. It’s these times when I know there is a God, that there is such a thing as a soul and that we’re all here, in this life together.
However, there were and still are times when religion has made me feel completely worthless. I learned all the rules for my particular religion and did my best to follow them. I mean, my God got nailed to a tree because I didn’t follow the rules… He died for my sins. My PERSONAL sins. When I saw that pretty girl walking down the school hall when I was 14 and had a lustful thought I was nailing Jesus to the cross. And what was I going to do? Not have lustful thoughts at 14? 16? 18? 24? 26? I can’t stop the chemicals that God made me with from mixing in a certain way and giving me a biological impulse to procreate with the female of my species. I did my best to suppress my sexuality. I knew that it would be MY sin of choice. That if I was going to Hell, it would be because of my sexuality.
I was also told to go forth and multiply and to choose a date that would make a good mate. Do you know how hard it is to figure out if a person will be a good mate for life (we don’t divorce) after meeting them once or twice? Do you know how hard it is to attract a woman when you’re terrified of arousing sexual desire in her because it’s a sin for you and for her? Yet I still wanted to be with a woman.
I felt like I had this darkness inside of me… a Dark Passenger. I was constantly aware of it and all I could do to stop it was shame and guilt myself into submission. It made me so angry with myself and the world. I remember wanting someone to just flick the switch on the universe and turn everything off. The worst was being at church. I’d look around and see all these happy people… young unmarried couples. They seemed so happy!! How could they be so happy?? They had the EXACT same pressures on me to be “a good and humble servant” and they were happy about it! And I KNEW that they were all having sex. I wasn’t. I was saving myself and was MISERABLE while these people who weren’t following the rules nearly as strictly as me were happy. Finally I broke. I hated myself because I couldn’t be what the church wanted me to be. So I gave myself a month to live without the church.
I felt horrible that first week. I was going straight to Hell. After that week I felt free. I still talked to God… but I got to actually be me and talk to God as myself. I felt so much more confident in my life and my anger disappeared. I felt love flow through me for everyone. Without religion, I was free and I still had my connection to God. Everything flowed better and I was able to love more freely. I started loving life.
I don’t know if this applies to anyone else but me. I just know that I’m a better, more loving person now that I’m outside of an organized church.
Great post, Intern Dan!
One question… Do you watch Dexter? You mention a “dark passenger” here.
Intern Dan I have to agree with Paula this is an amazing post, I love your honesty!
Althought it makes me wonder why you can’t find a balance between both worlds? Why does it have to be one or the other, church or sins? Maybe those “happy people” from church had it figured out, love living your life but still fallow and believe in god. Let him know you are still one of his followers, god is everywhere and understands all… Our lifes aren’t black and white, when living and loving it’s a mix of grey.
I don’t want to get bogged down in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, but basically, it came down to personal integrity. I wasn’t going to continue to call myself a Catholic when I couldn’t follow their rules of what it means to be one.
I’m sure if there are any Catholics reading this they’ll have a good argument against that and I’d be totally open to reading it. I haven’t closed the door on the Church, I’ve just kind of put up a sign saying “Gone Fishing.”
Like I said before god is everywhere and some times the presure from church is not a good thing, do remember that the church and god are different and he will always be there for you. (The church might not:p) But all that matters is that you are a happier healthier you!
It wasn’t a god that whispered to you, “DO NOT BE AFRAID,” it was YOU! When you see the girl walking down that hall and you want to get with that, thats nature! The churches and religions fight against nature for social conditioning. They want you to be servants for the “Lord.”
Oh yeah, I feel happier that I am an atheist! I couldn’t date some overly religious girl.
Well, no info on meeting people and improving your personal life today. Guess I’ll go and learn some NLP, today.
(now where did I put that book on how to hypnotize women?)
@John
Have fun with nlp!
Religion doesn’t have to affect your dating life. I feel like if someone won’t go out with you because you are (insert your religion) then thats the same as saying they won’t go out with you because you are (insert race). And if they say something like that then who cares, its on to the next one!
I’m not really religious much at all. I feel that a good amount of people go to church just because they feel they have to. If you can find a great connection with God and feel happy about yourself outsie of church then I dont see any problem with that and neither should anyone who goes out with you.
@john: I think that this IS advice about improving your personal life. It’s about understanding what makes you happy and what makes you tick, and improving your life so that you’re happier and healthier. If Intern Dan hadn’t tried something different, he wouldn’t have discovered how much happier he could be or that he could love freely without religious restriction.
I think he’s talking about while it’s important to have values and beliefs, but maybe in following certain principles so strictly you can deprive yourself of happiness. It’s like eating healthy. While you should eat mostly things with a high nutritional yield like spinach, broccoli and chicken breasts, will you really be happy if you can’t eat a piece of cake on your wedding day, or a big steak at a BBQ or the occasional milkshake? Every once in a while, you need to do something for the pleasure you get out of it. Intern Dan let go of Catholicism, while maintaining certain values and principles and a relationship with God, and he’s happier for it.
I think that this blog has everything to do with improving your personal life.
And maybe it’s good to think about in terms of meeting people as well. Can you really meet new people and get the kind of relationships you seek while you’re caught up in your head like that?
Wow this applies to me a lot. Just recently I’ve broken out like you and stopped going to church and, life feels much better.
Great Blog!
This line best describes what my problem was with religion:
“I hated myself because I couldn’t be what the church wanted me to be.”
Hey wheres the book on how to hypnotise men?!
I agree with everyone, if it makes u feel and act better, than i think it was a good choice to make.
I think if the commandments where more of a positive reinforcement, it probably be much easier to follow. do u think it would have made a difference?
Nice blog, Dan! Being raised in the same faith, and having a mother who worked for the church practically all of her life, I struggled with a lot of similar issues. However, I came to the point where I decided to make my own decisions. I don’t feel like a failure of the church, but rather someone who has given a great deal of thought as to where it fits with me. As someone who studies psychology, I know damn well that we all have those drives and urges. Some churches teach that even *thinking* about those urges is wrong. I don’t want to upset anyone, but don’t you think that line of thinking is pretty convenient, considering it was written by men who take a vow of celibacy in order to become priests? If we are human beings created by God, those thoughts and feelings are a part of who we are.
I may not agree with all the rules of the church, but I have not stopped going to because it is comforting to me. Hell, I even get angry at God because it has been so hard for me to find a partner. I know prayer is not magic, and I have to do my fair share of work to make it happen… which is why I come here. That does not mean the situation isn’t frustrating, and there are times when I just ask “Why?” I am hopeful that frustration will end someday.
I feel this post completely missed the mark. Instead of an article about how religion might affect your mentality when you date (for example, do you limit yourself to dating strictly within your religion?), it instead ended up being more of a self-proclaiming, and at the same time, self-convincing article about how Dan feels exempt from religion. The uncharted (at least on this blog) topic had great potential anyway.
Being Catholic and dating don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
I’ve been divorced for five years and have dated. What has saved me from the hurt of being in any more failed relationships was NOT sleeping with the guy.
If I had dated them, then slept with them, then broken up with them, I would have felt ten times worse than if I had just dated them then broken up with them.
Lucky for me (?), I have yet to date anyone that has gotten me to the point that I have to be concerned with sleeping with them.
My rule of thumb? If they won’t sing in front of me, then I’m not getting naked in front of them.
You’d be surprised how many men won’t sing to you!!!
@name (how original! haha!) I don’t know how different things would’ve been if the commandments were thou shall rather than thou shall not. Jesus made the commandments “positive” and it didn’t really change anything.
@Amy, the vow of celibacy in the Catholic church came in the middle ages in order to prevent the church from losing property when the priest died and his son inherited the land. This may seem scandalous right now, but it wasn’t back then.
I’m glad you keep going to church because you find comfort in it
As far as finding a man goes, what do you find to be your biggest frustration?
@ Cesar
What was the moment for you when you finally decided to leave?
What the fuck is this doing on this site. If I wanted someone’s views on god, I would go to church or go to some religious website.
Look at this bit, “I mean, my God got nailed to a tree because I didn’t follow the rules… He died for my sins. My PERSONAL sins”. YOU may want to believe in human sacrifices, but I don’t. I didn’t ask for your religious views so keep them to yourself.
Why don’t you ask a muslim for his views, seeing your exploring these issues? I’ll tell you why. You didn’t ask a muslim because it isn’t appropriate. It isn’t appropriate to ask a christian either, because this isn’t what we signed up for.
What are you gong to discuss next? “Does who you vote for affect your dating”? “Does the colour of your skin affect who you will date?”
I would say it affects my dating in the sense that I’m atheist (though formerly roman catholic) and a lot of religious god fearing people won’t date an atheist. Which is fine, because I’d never date anyone religious whatsoever. Especially Christians. It’s hard to take someone seriously when they believe in a talking snake and other nonsense. Plus, what I hated about church more than anything were the pick and choosers as I call them. They pick parts of the Bible they like, then disregard the ones they don’t like. No, sorry, that’s not how religion works. Either you support homophobia, bigotry, and the oppression of women, or you don’t believe at all.
You’ve stumbled onto an incredibly important fact here, Dan. Religion breeds fear, guilt, and insecurity. Deep down inside, we know that we can never be good enough. Religion tells you that you have to earn your way into Heaven by following the rules, but there’s no way to know know exactly where you stand. The Catholic Church does a lot of good around the world, but the simple truth is, it’s misleading every single one of its members because sometime, a long time ago, they began to teach works-based salvation. That doesn’t mean you necessarily have to completely throw any sort of organized religion out the window though.
Sit down and really read an as close to word for word translation of the Bible like the ESV or NASB. Read the book of Mark. Read the book of Romans. Works based salvation and having to earn God’s love is a fabrication of a Church that seeks power through guilt. The entire point of penal substitutionary atonement is that Christians get Christ’s perfect record, and he not only gets our imperfect record, but he paid the penalty for it. Any call to do good is out of thankfulness for what has been done for you, not a need to earn more grace.
You will likely find plenty of Protestant churches that effectively teach works based salvation, and you’ll also find churches that completely miss the mark and teach effective universalism, but if you can find a church that says, “Hey, let’s open up this Bible we say we believe in and see what it says,” instead of being bogged down in dogma, you’ll find a lot more of what you need from church.
I love this bog! I was thinking about this 2 days ago and was hoping that you guys would talk about it. And you just did! This is amazing!
I feel like I’m going through the same things that you did years ago. It’s like you’re describing what I was living (and still am sometimes).
My family is really religious. It seems like I always wanted to get the approbation of my parents in what I was doing, even if they didn’t see it. Like I was mirroring their belief system. If they said it’s good, it was good, if they said it’s bad, it was bad.
So I always wanted to find this ONE woman, that I would love all my life, and with whom I was “allowed” to experience sex. And for this I rejected a lot of women and a lot of experiences. I wanted my personal life to be perfect; I would find my true love, she would be the only woman I’ve been with, her too, and we would live happily ever after. It would be great, would please my parents (their beliefs) and I would follow the “religious” path.
But now my thinking is totally different, and like Dan, I don’t follow the rules of the church anymore. I now argue with my parents on some points and agree with them on others. They accept what I believe in and I do the same for them.
I feel like a lot of the precepts taught by the church lead you to suffering more than happiness. Or it make you think that somehow it’s a good thing to suffer in your current life. And I think this is all come from a misunderstanding about what it is really to live with God.
I still truly believe in God, because I experienced it and felt the power of being “with” him. Now some people would call this the Universe, or the inner you, or anything else… but I just call it God, because this how I’ve been raised.
I think the only way to know if you’re on the right path, is to know how you feel deep inside. I think we’re living with God when we’re truly happy and at peace, no matter what we’re doing.
Maybe for someone being with God means experiencing a lot of sex with a lot of women, and for another one just finding his/her soul mate. You just have to choose what resonate the most with yourself.
That’s why I don’t care if David believes in God or not, because his message is true, he found his way, he seems to love the way he lives and to have a great connection with his “inner him”. He knows that “IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MOMENT!” And we all now that! What we know less is how to REALLY stay 100% in the moment every second of our lives and how to stay happy and at peace no matter what’s going on around us. Being in that state of mind 24/24, 7/7, makes life so easy, abundant and enjoyable!!
And this is when religion can help. It gives you ways to find yourself, to be at peace, to do good things instead of bad things etc… But the problem is in the way the church try to teach us. They try to force us to do things for our own good “because this is what you must be doing or you’ll go to hell”, instead of showing us in what doing this things will free us.
Praying is a good way to stay calm, meditate and address our intentions. Going to church is a great way to connect with people, be united, in a peaceful, joyful environment so that we can bring that joy to the world and help others. But most people forgot that! They just do it cause it’s wrong not doing it. They just do what’s “right to do” but doesn’t really live it, since they don’t understand it!
In fact what have been ways to “connect with God”, became THE right path to follow, and so does everything that came from the church. Any interpretation on the life and the bible that they had, on any subject, became THE right way to live your life. Instead of learning to follow our own intuition and know what’s good for us, we’ve learned to follow rules that we didn’t understand and that we didn’t even know if they were right or wrong.
Here a recent experience :
A few days ago, learning some bad news, and being totally confused, I followed the advice of my parents (because I knew inside something good would come from it) and went to the a chapel supposed to be miraculous. I bought a medal there, and stayed in the chapel for 5-10 minutes, just being here in silence. On the way home, as soon as I put my medal on, I knew that everything would be ok, no matter what I would do. I was instantly filled with a tremendous joy and peace. Because I believe in it! I don’t know what the end result of all this is going to be, but I don’t care cause I know that I feel much better NOW. And that’s what’s important!
The thing is, when I were in this chapel, a lot of my fears came up too. Fears concerning the rules of the church and the way I was living my life. And I realized that these fears and beliefs was still preventing me today from going forward, in one way or another.
God/Love/Peace/Happiness and fear can’t cohabit in the same place! So the fear the church create in us to follow the “right path” is the same fear that move us away from God/Love/Peace/Happiness.
And this is why some precepts FEELS so wrong to us, because deep inside we know the message is true, but the way it’s delivered isn’t right and doesn’t seems to make sense, or doesn’t resonate with us at that moment.
You need to have faith in life, know your power, follow your intuition and be sure that wherever you are, you’re in the right place, and everything will flow easily. And for me what gives us the energy to stay in that mindset doesn’t matter as long as it feels right to us.
The debate between works and grace is exhaustive and far better theologians than myself have debated it. You hit upon the tension though, we have to do good things but we nothing we ever do wil be good enough and so we need grace.
I could go on about this at length. It’s one of my favourite subjects. I might indulge.
As far as the Bible goes, Catholicism isn’t a “Biblical” religion like Prostestantism. Catholicism is a doxology, meaning it’s based on interpretation and opinion. It’s also constantly being revealed.
The Bible itself is an interesting historical document because the Gospels were written between about 80-200 years after Christ. There are some other interesting things with the Gospels too. 3 of them, Matthew, Mark and Luke, are called the synoptic Gospels and share many of the same stories, although their details vary.
For example, when Jesus is in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights and the devil tempts him, the order of the temptations varies from Gospel to Gospel.
Other oddities occur in the Gospels as well, like in Mark, in early manuscripts the Virgin birth and the Resurrection are omitted. In later manuscripts they were added. These are kind of big details to leave out.
Then there’s the fact that the Christianity we know today is based upon Paul who was able to attract more followers than the people who actually knew Jesus. Paul went to the gentiles and told them they could follow Jesus without being circumsized. The Jesus movement was always 100% Jewish. In fact, there’s a place in the Gospels where Jesus calls the Gentiles dogs.
I could go on, and I’m not trying to wreck the Bible or anything, but it was written by the humans and so, even if it was divinely inspired, it still has human failings.
I cant support something that has been hiding petafiles for hundreads of years.
Religion is Medieval Hocus Pocus, and is the biggest scam yet the best buisness you pay and you get nothing back.
For people that say it is just to make you a better person. Well you should learn how to think not what to think.
Society loves to make fun of the middle east and them praying yet if you go down south US and they are no better or less extreme.
I believe in being good. Dont care what you believe. There is so much hypocrisy in religion it makes me sick. Plus Science keeps proving religion wrong.
Right on, Dan…you definitely know your stuff lol.
To answer your question about frustration, I have yet to find a guy who is really comfortable really sharing how he feels. This seems to happen over and over again. I was recently in a relationship that started out very well. We were both interested and having a lot of fun together. But after a few months, my feelings started going deeper, and I told him. The response I got was along the lines of, “Thanks for telling met that. I’m the kind of person who doesn’t say how I’m feeling until I feel like I can’t NOT say it.” Hmm.
We kept dating for a few months longer, but things still felt bland to me. He told me he wasn’t on the same page emotionally, and didn’t feel he’d get there, so we broke up. I realize it was better to end it then to keep going, but it still feels crappy. I don’t need to be the guy’s therapist, but I’d like to know that he is feeling *something*.
Amy, men only have about 6 different feelings: hungry, horny, cold/hot, pain, angry, and shit “oh, I feel like shit, I drank too much last night.”
Once you realize that we become much easier to deal with.
On a more serious note, how would you describe yourself emotionally and how would you describe what you’re looking for?
Great post Dan, I was raised the same way myself…..
Dan, this blog was great!
How to break yourself free from beliefs you don’t really, truly believe in… I loved your last paragraph.
This applies to religion and much, much more!
Thank you, Dan, for tackling this blog! Love and religion is an extremely tough issue to muddle through because there really isn’t one set answer for it. I feel exactly the same way you did. It’s so weird because at a young age we’re taught that anything related to sex (kissing, etc.) is a bad thing and very shameful… but with that kind of connotation all your life, how can you just flick the switch to “Oh, it’s perfectly fine and acceptable now!” when you actually find the “one”.
Thank you for letting me know I’m not alone!
Dan,
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Another boring Dan blog. You are too young, and inexperienced, to be trying to coach others on life, and dating. Every person goes through your “blogs” boring concepts, and has to make decisions on “religion” and our own beliefs in each of our lives. You are simply at a young mans junction, of realizing that religion is meant to “control” the “lustfull” emotions of the masses, and keep them under control, and temper normal human sexual behavior (and all normal “nonconforming” behavior. Oh, and “god” does not talk or “whisper” to you, unless you need to be put in the looney bin. Welcome to growing up, and forming your own opinions, ideas, beliefs, and morals, without being told by some religion.
Dude, fantastic post! I’ve dealt with the same problem myself… figuring out if no sex before marriage is an ACTUAl spiritual thing we are to follow versus some religion/parental-imposed belief… Thanks for posting
Hey john, did you find the book?
Thought I’d share a little about myself since it directly relates to this topic of religion and dating.
My most significant relationship in the past lasted about 5 years. We met when we were both 1st year university. We started as neighbors living next to each other, turned to friendship hanging out getting to know each other, watching movies, going to bars, taking turns cooking dinner and everything. So naturally as time went on they friendship developed in to a romance. At the end of our first year of university we decided to get a place together for the summer months. That remained our living arrangements for the 2nd year of school instead of moving back into campus housing. During 2nd year we started doing holidays with each others families thanksgiving with my family, Easter at her family’s and we would split Christmas at both places. So by this point I knew her family was catholic and she knew my family wasn’t religious and we were both fine with that. We respected each others families beliefs we would go to Easter/Christmas mass when we were at her family and we wouldn’t do any religious stuff with my family. Now a couple more years pass we end up getting engaged and started planning the wedding. After planning out the details we had agreed on a non-denominational ceremony. Her parents began pressuring her that the marriage wouldn’t be recognized in the eyes of God unless it was a catholic ceremony. So I compromised and agreed to allow a catholic priest to preform the ceremony. Unfortunatly that wasn’t enough in the eyes of the catholic church they belonged to I would need to take catechism classes and convert to Catholicism and be baptized in order for the church to recognize the marriage. Now I loved this girl but wasn’t willing to live a lie about my religion just to have our relationship validated in the eyes of her parents. Ultimatly this was the reason for the downfall of the relationship I wasn’t willing to convert to her faith and she wasn’t willing to have her parents not recognize the relationship as a true marriage.
Dan, great blog, I learned a lot about the catholic religion.
@ Jimmy Jonga What would you have liked the post to have been about with regards to religion. I get the feeling, and I could be wrong, that you didn’t like the post because I took a swipe at religion and you have a strong affinity for it.
@Bob, you’re such an angry old man it’s hilarious! Like good ol’ Abe Simpson.”ARGH Why are young men learning how to live their lives how they want to? ARRGGHHH I’m so angry and old! AAAAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH” I wonder if you typed while shaking your fist at the screen the whole time?
@Mark Did you read the blog or just see the word “God” and get really angry? And why wouldn’t it be appropriate to ask a muslim about how they feel about dating? I’m puzzled by your post.
@KJD Thanks for posting your story!
Poor Dan, Can’t take constructive critisism without trying to anialate your critic with childish exclamations. Back to your blog. You were foolishly raised (by your religious parents, I assume) to think like a Catholic as a child, and are now “becoming” a man. You are now growing and throwing out the teachings you learned that don’t conform with your current beliefs, feelings, and “sins”, while still trying to maintain the ones that you still can. You are just a child learning to grow up, and think for himself, same as everyone else has to do. It is no great epithany on your part. I am never angry, not that type of person, just trying to help you become a man, and think for yourself.
A lot of Catholics I grew up with were not great daters……
Thanks for the tip, Dan- I will try to remember that, haha. I am sure there are guys out there who have told women those “three little words,” though
That always seems to be what’s missing for me. I know you obviously can’t force that, but I think there’s a lot of fear caught up in expressing feelings too.
As for how I would describe myself emotionally, I would say I’m someone who needs to share how she’s feeling. It’s not always easy to do, and I am by no means someone who just walks around broadcasting my emotions. But when I start to feel something stronger growing in a relationship, I think it’s phony to keep it inside and not express it. What I’m looking for is a guy who can say how he feels – whether it’s anger, hunger, pain, or more “soft” emotions. Is that too much to ask? The guy I mentioned previously would tell me, “You’re such a sweet girl,” but he never told me how he felt…at least not until the end. So, I didn’t really have an emotional connection with him (hence the blandness). Like a wise person told me, my grandpa could tell me that I’m sweet.
Terry
Great post and reallly glad that this blog was perfect timing for you!
Hey mark
This blog really stirred you up.
And you inspired me to write a new blog about the color of skin and dating.
You are off base if you do not think that this blog is not what you deem appropriate for dating.
I know a ton of people that were led down the religion road and how it controlled there dating.
As a matter of fact I am going to share with all of you a blog later next week on how religious guilt caused a friend of mine to walk away from the love of his life and how 20 years later he still thinks of here and regrets his choice.
Had a long day teaching my seminar so I. Need to get some sleep.
Bob,I was teasing you. That’s all. It means I like you.
You make an interesting point though, that everyone goes through this and that it’s no big deal. Except it probably is a big deal for the people going through it and the people who haven’t gone through it yet. Wasn’t it a big deal when you went through it?
Actually Bob, if you’re in a sharing mood and sincere about wanting to help me become a man, I’d love to read about your experiences on “becoming” a man.
@name,, (if that IS your real name)
Yeah,, I hypnotized three women last night!
I read that Mel Gibson just started filming a new movie. , and Mel has disappeared from the blog….
Coincidence?
On a side note,,
Can I please take this moment, on this anniversary, to say…
God bless the victims, the families, and those who gave their lives in the name of freedom, during the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
NEVER FORGET.
thank you.
This is an interesting post. I’ve always wondered what it must be like for people that are very religious to live in such a sexual society. Sex is everywhere these days, and its becoming less and less common to wait until marraige to begin. If anyone is in this position, I’d love to get your perspective.
hey Dan, Great Blog. I am Hindu and I been through this experience in my teenage years. Until one day I discover the scientific explanation about my sexual drives, then I start questioning everything I been told as a kid. I think its a common thread in all religion, either you are christian, Muslim, Jews Hindu or followers of any organized religion.
I am not religious anymore and I believe in finding your own truth through your life journey, that is the only way to being spiritual for me.
Intern Dan, as a faithful follower of Christ it’s my duty to warn you of the path you are on. By rejecting Jesus as your savior and the Bible as the Word of God you’re assuring your place in Hellfire.
And you’re leading these poor people astray. Please reconsider before it’s too late. Damnation is eternal.
Oh, St. Augustine. You’re about 1500 years too late.
Paula, you seem to be confused. What the Gospels preach, what Jesus taught, is timeless.
You know what else is timeless? Hell. And from the looks of it, nearly everyone here is headed to Hell unless you all accept Jesus as your Lord and savior and allow his blood to wash away your sins.
I’ve been looking at this website and I’m shocked at what is being taught here. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for the very things Mr. Wygant preaches.
Mr. Wygant, perhaps you don’t realize this but Satan is using you as a tool to spread his lies and darkness. You help everyone attain worldly pleasures like sex and completely ignore the eternal pleasures of the Spirit.
John 12:25 “Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.”
I don’t want anyone to go to Hell, so all of you, please reconsider your life and do not go on this site anymore. You don’t need the carnal pleasures of this world, only the pleasures of the Spirit and the Kingdom of God.
Oh my, Dan, bible thumper Augustine is giving you your dire warning against thinking for yourself, as all fanatics do. So scary…Augustine, why don’t you read a little bit and expand your views on the modern world and science. Your narrow interpetation of religion will so make so boring, miss out on so much, and mundane. C’mon man, think for yourself, not the way some man written book tells you to think.
Go Dallas!! Yeee Hawww!!
Go Dallas where Bob
J E T S!!!!!!!
Augustine, it is US who have the dire warning for you. It is that you are you are leading an entire lifetime without knowing who you are ; and this man made book tells you it is a sin to do so. By misleading others into YOUR false guilt ridden lifestyle it is YOU that is the one harming others.
@Augustine, I was wondering when this was going to happen.
I’ve read all the same Gospel passages you have and if you’re able to live your life happily following the rules set out in them, then good for you.
I can’t do it right now. I need to have my pre-conversion Augustine years.
Dan, I’m sure you think you’re clever with your Augustine line, but cleverness won’t save you. Nothing that YOU do can. You have to give up your life to Christ.
Sebastian and Bob, your words mean nothing to me. I listen to the Word of God. You’re all agitated because I’ve shone light onto this dark hole and instead of changing your ways, you’re using your God given free will as an excuse to not be Good. It’s an abuse and I’m telling you, God’s Judgment is coming like a thief in the night. You need to be ready!
@Augustine
Doesn’t your religion also grant forgiveness for sin as long as it is asked for? So doesn’t really matter how we live out our lives as long as we ask to be forgiven at the pearly gates
Also “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
Of course forgiveness is granted to those who sincerely ask for it, however there is a time limit on it. You won’t make it to the pearly gates if you aren’t forgiven.
And, like so many in today’s dying culture, you’ve perverted scripture in your attempt to prove me wrong.
The story you’re referring to is found in John 8: 2-11. The adulteress woman is taken before Jesus and the Pharisees want to stone her because the Jewish Law demands adulterers be stoned. Jesus says “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” No one could do it because she had been having relations with all the men who were about to stone her! They were guilty of the very act they were about to condemn her for!
This is not the case here. Dan has been led astray by this website and Mr. Wygant. I have not! and it is my duty to at least try to save his soul and the souls of his readers and students.
The time draws near.
@-Augustine
hey augustine,
are you a virgin? just curious.
Wait, there is a time limit on my redemption? Shucks, how long do I have left? I wanna get some serious sinning done before I pull a “LOL JK” and ask desperately to be forgiven.
Will puppy eyes work on God?
This quote seems applicable to this discussion:
Man needs less of the “I am a feeble worm of the dust” idea in his theology, and more of the conception “I am a great human soul with marvellous possibilities” as a vital element in his daily working religion. With this broadening, stimulating view of life, he sees how he may attain his kingship through self-control.
- The Kingship of Self-control by William George Jordan -
I’m so glad religion is dying these days. Probably due to so much available information on the internet these days. I really don’t trust anyone who claims to know the mysteries of the universe.
Spirituality is one thing.. But religion is the biggest excuse for murder in human history. It can also lead to lazy and fearful thinking which makes a person highly vulnerable to outside influences.
Augustine,
The time has always been near. What David teaches does not lead to hell. It’s like the saying “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” David simply lays out the tools of how to attract.
I am still a virgin. I have never kissed a girl, never had a real girlfriend. You are going to condemn me for this: I follow my own moral code, set be me about how I want to live. Since I have learned about David and first went on his site, I have changed my moral code because I realized that how I held myself was holding me back.
I am a martial artist. I understand morals, I have morals. Self control, you betcha. as a martial artist I respect everyone who doesn’t give me a reason not to respect them. So far, from what I’ve read of your opinion, I respect your opinion on the matter. It’s your American right to post your opinion on this website.
I believe in God, I talk to him everyday. I’ve met someone very similar to you in the past. He said some of the very same things you have said and he quoted the bible very often. Funny thing about this guy… he was a violent sociopath who got kick out of his dorm for attempted murder. He also knocked up his girlfriend at the time and now they are married.
Go ahead. Condemn us for our sins
Sean D, Your attempt to discredit me is pathetic and comical. You’re trying to lump me and all God fearing people into the same category as your sociopath college roommate? That’s intellectually and logically feeble.
You’ve been led astray by this world. But you can always come back before its too late.
Look Intern Dan, look at the young men you’ve led astray. You should have a millstone tied to your neck and be thrown into the ocean.
Bobby, religion isn’t dying, in fact the Biblical churches are seeing a great resurgence and the Islamic faith is growing fast.
Soon, the Lord will separate the wheat from the chaff. Make sure you’re wheat and not chaff.
Kudos to you David for your instinct and timing in naming this issue, and to you Dan, for being truly bold by putting your inner life and self examination up for scrutiny.
This site and blog has been a great resource for me to direct men to- particularly the rough diamond, but oh so deliciously full of potential Eastern/Central European and Asian man who has had essentially no experience interacting with women socially, and in a respectful fashion, in their home countries.
Please excuse my moment of standing on the soapbox to deliver some beat-down to the men who are claiming God told them how to treat me.
This isn’t about beating people up with some scripture Augustine, or battling it out with some Hadith (Islamic non-Koranic stories and reports about Muhammed that is often the basis for Islamic law). Rather, Dan has given a personal account of how having religious dictates that are pretty meaningless in his day to day life buzzing in his brain gummed up the social machinery to interact with women in a way that felt good to him, his Spirit, and I guarantee you, the women he was interacting with.
Abrahimic Religious Fundamentalism may have been great to organize and give some morals to displaced (Hebrew) people a few thousand years ago and Bedouin tribal marauders 1300 years ago. However, promoting those beliefs, particularly around gender and relations between the sexes, in a world where Democracy is a Twitter trend, more women in the United States have university degrees than men, and Muslim women choose to adopt some form of hijab (headscarf) to avoid sexual harassment, while being a moving force in the Islamic Democracy movements and working towards abolishing child marriages-
I tell you as a woman, your beliefs do not value me or any woman.
Rather they promote the Jeff Warrens of the world, the practice of female genital mutilation, and on a more mundane level that I experience often- the simple inability for a man to meet me on the level that I am an equal but intoxicatingly different Spiritual Being than him.
Teaching men how to respectfully engage and admire women without squashing their own masculinity or spirit, as the men here are committed to doing is healthy and respectful. Jumping in here Augustine, and promoting religious dictates that not only are lacking in cultural relevance, but breed abusive behaviors towards women encouraged by “The Word of God or ALLAH” is not only flat out hypocrisy, it’s down right dangerous.
Behavior that respects the Divine in us all on the part of a man; he is comfortable in his skin and desires, understands the sensual is an invitation to engage his Spirit, delights in and respects my own skin and desires. No guilt, no personal arguments with God, and most definitely no passive aggressive women bashing.
Hey john, yeah its not name, its Theresa. Umm, I guess you had a good day, lol.
Augustine,
I feel as if you have been mislead as well.
“You’re trying to lump me and all God fearing people into the same category as your sociopath college roommate?”
1. Never said he was my roommate
.(Where did you get that from anyways? No really I’m curious)
2. I fear God. I believe in God. Therefore I am in essence lumping my self right in there with you? Think about that….I’ll wait.
“Sean D, Your attempt to discredit me is pathetic and comical … That’s intellectually and logically feeble.”
The fact is you have not given us any reason to believe you credited. Therefore you have no ethos.
Tell me Augustine, are you really what you say you are? Speaking of which, is Augustine your real name? And further more why are you posting on this website? There are a lot more better purposed websites. I doubt that this is an effective medium.
Oh and I was out of line in comparing you with that monster. I apologize I was in the wrong. However, Do me one thing, would ya? go into any dojo worth its salt, go to the instructor, and address him like you did me. It will be a good learning experience.
Augustine, I wish you peace, just lighten up a lil, a’ight?
oh btw 162, I could not agree more. : )
Sean D I can see by your volatile reaction that you have very little self control. Your invitation to
“However, Do me one thing, would ya? go into any dojo worth its salt, go to the instructor, and address him like you did me. It will be a good learning experience.”
Is a thinly veiled wish for me to learn some sort of “respect” by being physically harmed. I’ve bothered you by exposing your sin. It’s ugly isn’t it? That’s why you lash out.
Real life is not a Dojo and prowess in your exercise routine means absolutely nothing to me or to God. Perhaps you should do your own exercise and go up to people on the street and tell them that you are learning a fancy exercise dance routine with an exotic name. Let us know how that goes.
A friend who was about to start participating in this website sent me here. I advised him not come here and felt God calling me to give witness to his love and mercy. See, you’re not condemned to Hell yet. I don’t want you to go to Hell. Jesus certainly does not want you to go to Hell.
You say that you do believe in God but from the little you’ve written here it seems as though you are lukewarm. Lukewarm followers will be vomited from the Lord’s mouth on the day of judgment.
So be brave, confess your sins and bask in the love and the forgiveness of the Lord.
@162 I have not said anything against women and Jesus put women in a place of honor. Mary Magdalene was the first human to see our risen Lord after the resurrection. In the eyes of the Lord there are no men or women, only Children of God.
Sean,
I thank you and am grateful for the tag. More importantly, when I stand up for the men who value me, and you stand up for the women who value you, this is the world I want to be a part of. Most people do, even if they never put it together like that.
And this thing, this tag team of mutual respect, o’ Man of Martial Arts, it has the power to not only put to bed the Trolls of the Internet, but the silly Trolls that want to plague and divide us with their dictates, policies, and agendas in the real world.
Augustine the Troll says to a Reasonable Man:
“See, you’re not condemned to Hell yet. I don’t want you to go to Hell. Jesus certainly does not want you to go to Hell.”
And I get a littttleeeee bitty engagement at the end-
“@162 I have not said anything against women and Jesus put women in a place of honor.”
162 Says to Augustine- Don’t shank the men that truly respect women with your rusty little guilt knife, and play respect to me. Begone Troll, tomorrow is another day, another post.
Actually a true martial artist does not start fights “Holy man”. I had a chance to fight today not 10 minutes ago. I diffused the situation, funnily enough,that’s how I used my “fancy dance” training. I asked you this question because it would reveal your character. If you addressed a sensei with the lack of respect that you do me, they would not harm you, in fact there would be very little point. They would A. tell you to leave or B. Ignore you. Your lack of understanding of the arts and of life is pathetic and repulsive.
so Augustine I think I shall suffer no more of your foolishness. It was entertaining however.
“To win without fighting is best” -Sun Tzu
@162, I know right? Mutual respect just works out for the best! It’s amazing!
Sean D and 162, you two are the trolls of this board. Sean D you’re a violent man who bullies people by constantly bringing up your martial arts training and your ability to be violent. 162 you justify your bullying because you have a vagina.
Both of you will find that your bullying tactics don’t work. The Christians have been fed to lions, burned alive and have been counter-cultural since the beginning. We aren’t afraid of fake Christians and heathens. We know that we are saved.
You bully because you are scared of your own evil and hate anything that reminds you of it. Like me.
That’s fine. You two have absolutely no power over me. But don’t say I didn’t offer salvation to you. The door is always open though, you just need to repent and accept the love of God. It’s that easy.
Why are you here Augustine? I don’t get it. No one asked for your advice. You can’t save us- we’re all going to burn in eternal hellfire. We’re all perfectly fine with that. You can go now.
I believe there is a huge difference between personally believing in one’s own concept of God and following someone else’s standard of God.
God is best understood as a euphemism for idealism. Idealism is an unquantifiable thing and is thus beyond cognition. One’s vision of God (idealism) is thus subjective. It cannot be objectified by dint of this divide. Spirituality is a subjective view of the Ideal. Religion is an attempt to claim this Ideal as The Actual and thus to standardize idealism. Religious dogma promulgators very often try to quantify the unquantifiable, here. God is a transcendental concept and cannot be quantified or cognable. This is not saying that God exists or not because God both exitsts and not-exists, being transcendental. So God is also a euphemism for Paradox, the root of all cognition. Logic, words and linearity cannot breach this infinite concept. No Bible, Torah, Koran preacher or philosopher or any person can approach that which is all pervasive. The infinite container cannot be breached by finite things. Morality is just a flavor in the cake of nihilism. God is A Priori and morality is A Posteriori. You need to listen to your heart and come to your own conclusions of morality. No amount of Bible quotes and circular logic can make that untrue.
Hi there im james and i am an athiest. Before i say this my intention is not to offend no one I just share a diffrent opinion. I think every one should do what ever they feel as long as they do’nt hurt anyone. Religion sells fear. It’s a negetive lifestyle that keeps away people from doing what they feel in their hearts. Alot of people who are religious suffer from peer presure because they’re obeying bronze age rules. But they know that deep down inside their hearts feel different but don’t have the courage to do what they want. To be honest and blunt It’s FEAR. The fear that you will be punished if dont obey. Or the major rule out of all the major rules is the fear of going to hell. If god was a good god why would it be this way . Face it religion is a mindshrinking game that keeps everybody in line so they can have fear of leaving their religion. It’s mass making money buisness. religion kills independant thought and from thinking for youself. Religion is a manipulation of the mind. There’s no evvidence that god or religion is real. These were just made up stories by farmers and herds man in the middle east 2 thaousand years ago. people did’nt know jack at that time what an atom was or a particle or that the world was round at that time. But when it comes to people who use logic and critcal thinking like scientist for example they don’t get the enough credit that they deserve. Abraham lincoln said once “A brave man should always say what’s on his heart.” To make this short im just a guy who belivies in science and the theory of evolution. Live your life be free. And like Jhonny Depp best advice always says do what you have to do for you don’t give a shit what any body else thinks. THINK FOR YOURSELF.
A great example of a ‘Christian’ Augustine is. I’m willing to bet anything, he’s a conservative, hypocritical republican. He probably supports Pat Robertson, Sean Hannity, Bill O’reilly & Rush Limbaugh. SMH it’s people like him, who push people away from God. Good luck bringing people to Jesus with your attitude Augustine.
Now I know why, i find myself feeling more and more angry with Christianity. Look at how so called “Christians” act. The majority of you are anything but Christ like. Judgemental,Hateful, Self – Righteous is what most of you are. You’re a FAKE. My grandma(RIP) was a REAL Christian. Loving, caring, gentle, non judgemental,understanding, filled with empathy for others. You sir have none of the qualities above, based on your comments. Good day sir…….
Hey Intern Dan
http://goldenrule.name/index.htm#THE_SEX_LIE__EVIDENCE
^ READ THIS. The Pope and/ other Religious Teachers have been teaching a LIE. I discovered this last night, and honestly i’m shocked……
Wow, this is all so interesting to me. First of all, great blog – great explanation of both sides of religion – the abuse and comfort of it. I too grew up in the abuse of religion (christian version) and ended up completely rejected it for many years. Now in my 30′s, I am surprisingly finding my own connection to god and experiencing a kind of comfort I have never experienced in all my years of being in religion. Aside from the obvious abuse found in cults, I think that the abuse embedded in the common church is one of the most difficult for people to recognize. I really appreciate you writing about this.
Augustine,
Perhaps the best thing to do is live a moral life according to God’s will, and use the learning technology all these “pickup” guys have to learn how to interact with the opposite sex in order to know what to look for, and how to get someone worthy of your time and energy who will meet your needs, and of course pray about finding the right person for you in accordance with God’s will. When you sleep around you face disease, psychological damage, and spiritual damage. At the end of the day, we all need and crave love. I don’t care about being a mass fornicator, all I want is technology to better communicate with women in order to find the one. I think this can be integrated with learning technology from street smart guys like David Wygant and Ross Jeffries.
On another note, if you want to talk about scholars, several pop culture Rabbi’s (Shmuley Boteach comes to mind) have written about how when you sleep around with a bunch of people it’s harder to connect on a deeper, spiritual level when you do choose who you want to spend the rest of your life with.
Frankly, I think there are a lot of factors that have humanity upside- all this mental war fare (media programming), the moneyed int’l ULTRA elite (Illuminati) who use treachery to keep the Earth running like a plantation designed to serve them, and many messed up social ideas (post modernism, militant feminism for women and machismo perversion for men-all to divide the sexes against each other).
On hell, no one wants to go there, and it seems like 70-75 years (at best for many) of suffering is not worth an eternity of suffering. Like a Rabbi told me-no one knows until they cross over. I don’t wish that kind of dismal fate on even my worst enemies. I wish I knew the mysteries of life, I don’t. I think Jesus Christ selfless sacrifice for fallen sinners is amazing but, I don’t like the controlling nature of much of organized religion. I think some religious leaders use psychological tactics on us like the mass media, and crafty marketers do to get emotional reactions out of us for their objectives. I’m still earning every day. Best regards,
Jeff